From Whedonverse.org
Buffy The Vampire Slayer
A New Buffy/Angel Movie Campaign July 2005
Thursday 14 July 2005, by Webmaster
37
Forum messages
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14 July 2005 21:27, by Anonymous
Wouldn’t touch this one with a barge pole. The people behind this are usually slagging JW of and calling him an a*shat for not giving them a Bangel ending. They started up an anti-Spike campaign using Faith as a focus and now they have this where everyone and there dog is mentioned, except Spike. I’m all for a return to the verse for whichever characters Joss chooses. But this campaign is just a shipper group wanting a shipper movie. Sorry but get over it guys and gals. Also, weren’t these the ones who conned a whole lot of fans to give money to a neutral ad campaign, but it turned out to be all about Bangel. A lot of people were very annoyed to have given money for one reason only to find out that they had been deliberately duped into financing what can only be described as an ad that could cause diabetes.
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15 July 2005 01:18, by Anonymous
Oh, poor widdle Spikey! Everybody is soooooo mean to him! Forgive the observation, but the first poster seems to have a bit of an agenda of his or her own. Funny that a poster that seems to be mainly interested in reviving old innuendo, distortions and conflicts claims to be "neutral". Uh huh. Anything JW wants, as long as it includes bleached blond hair and a leather coat. Right. I say a plague on both your houses.
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15 July 2005 01:43, by Anonymous
Great, but we want Spike in it.
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15 July 2005 02:31, by Anonymous
Wow being deleted over at Whedonisque, told and proven you were wrong, and not knowing a thing you are talking about really does not even phase you, does it ramses.
This is smear campign ladies and gents. Go to the capaign it is very honest with what it wants. The only thing it does not include is spike. There for the anti b/a, anti buffy, anti anything but spike, are out in force.
Read the campaign for yourself , check with Whedonisque. Don’t let a troll , who has no life and has nothing better to do then lie and do things in a ficticious characters name, fool you.
But thanks. Since your very public stupidity, people have been joining, sending money and saying how much they want a group movie and how they are tired of all the spike fans saying the own every right to everything. So truelly keep up. Your anti slogans are what are making people send tired and want to either move on or walk away from this completely.
Now expect the same ones who got deleted and very publicly told to stop to attack me here. Place your bets.
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15 July 2005 02:43, by Anonymous
Alot of people?
Which people?
You mean those ads in the Hollywood reporter, one which Joss Whedon had hanging in his office he loved so much, and the other that SMG publicly thanked the fans for. Those adds? Or the one in from the final Angel thanking DB for his great protrayal of Angel with the b/a website at the bottom? Not a shipper ad. Go look again and hope others can not, so they do not see the absurdity of your claims.
I highly doubt anyone who goes to any board and gives money to any cause, does not know why they are doing it. And if they don’t, then they should read and inquire. If they don’t then it is their fault and I doubt they need a person such as yourself to talk for them.
Sounds like sour grapes. And more shippy stupidness. Give it up! No shipper group got anything. There is no B/a or B/s. Enough!
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15 July 2005 04:43, by Anonymous
The ending I wanted is screwed anyway. I don’t think Spike and Buffy should be together. And I think Angel is better suited with Cordelia. The whole Buffy/Angel thing was great when it happened but it’s over and it’s time to let it go. Anyway, the ending I wanted is screwed. It pissed me off when Angel season 5 took a whole episode to deal with tracking down Buffy. Episode 19 or was it 20? And that pissed me off. The show is called "Angel", we need to wrap up the storylines with those "Angel" characters as best as possible since the show was getting canceled and about to end soon. I wanted to see Angel and possibly Spike to Shanshu. I wanted the big Shanshu to close out the show. Maybe the Shanshu will take place in the comic books. I’m more interested in watching it on the tv screen *when the Angel show was still on the air* instead of reading it in a comic book. Long story short- I’m against a ’shipper’ movie. I’m sick of the shipping and the shippers anyway.
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15 July 2005 04:52, by Anonymous
I see more lies being thrown about by the same sad individual who has been spanked on various boards. This campaign IS about a B/A movie but it also welcomes in the other characters as the B/A fans firmly believe that many characters are neccesary and wanted for a complete story. The majority of B/Aers are also Core Four and Faith fans and very much welcome these fanbases. Further and quite obviously Joss is the sole focus artistically behind this. And finally, there was never an ad that was deceptive. This was another lie spread and debunked. And quite awhile ago. How sad that these individuals are the ones representing the Spike fans. All they can do is lie. Anyone who is curious about this campaign should visit the website and decide for themselves whether they’d like to be involved. They hardly need a liar such as the individual who posted the above statement to tell them how to think.
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15 July 2005 04:59, by Anonymous
I can’t thank you enough for the warning!!! I don’t mean to sound MEAN....because I adore the buffyverse....but man!..those people need to get themselves a life! haha I love xander lol
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15 July 2005 05:45, by Anonymous
I see the same old lies and smear campaign are alive and well....
How about a few facts, or can you not handle that?
Some fans of EVERY faction "slag off on JW", including fans who are currently working towards Spike campaigns. What’s your point? Doesn’t mean they aren’t still fans of JW’s work.
Second, the fans that are working on this campaign are very happy with JW’s handling of B/A.
Third, NOBODY, at ANY time was deceived or mislead by any ad campaign. That’s a really old rumor from the very first B/A ad done. Show me ONE person who claims to have been mislead. Please.
Fourth, no Spike is NOT mentioned but that doesn’t make this an ANTI-Spike campaign. This is where you "out" yourself and show the real reason behind this thinly veiled and vitriolic smear campaign....we don’t include Spike. Funny how I don’t notice you having a problem with the Spike campaign that doesn’t include anyone BUT Spike. Spike is represented by his fans, but he doesn’t need to be included in every project campaign. DEAL WITH THAT IN THERAPY IF YOU NEED TO, OK?
So why don’t YOU get over it and stop spreading your lies and working your own Whedon-related, anti-B/A issues out so publically.
God, this is so disgusting...reminds me of the "fans" of the Whedon-verse (read: Spike/Spuffy fans) who so thoroughly trashed Nancy Holder for her book "Heat", because it was so pro B/A.....but I’m sure YOU didn’t have any part of that. Right. Sure.
Your obvious fear of and desperation to keep any B/A project from even being talked about is shining with flashing neon colors. How ironic that that’s what you accuse us of.
By the way, how’s the weather in Egypt?
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15 July 2005 06:19, by jo
BTW, where’s this anti-Spike campaign everyone’s talking about? Funny how I’ve never seen any proof of it...
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15 July 2005 09:43, by Anonymous
LOL!!! I posted the first post here and I’m not ramses. Although she speaks the truth too. Also, these rather...panicked and extreme reaction posts kind of prove my point. Me thinks the ladies doth protest too much. Just warning people about you is all. Up to them then if they want to be fooled. Bye now! :0)
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15 July 2005 10:00, by Anonymous
I tend to remember about this so called mislead ad, that even many Spike fans worked on it and this was very publically debunked by many shipper and non shipper groups.Spike fans as well.
This reminds of the lies that just went around currently said by a few Spike fans.The one that said they were the sole money and reason behind the save angel campaign. And that it was manly started for Spike. Something that was known to be not true, by the founding members who were fans of every ship and group and who went to this spike board and posted on it, quite angry that they were trying to turn something that grand into something only about this ONE character.Go to this campaign website and ask them about this if you want the truth.
If you truely want to be informed, do you own research. Don’t let anyone tell you what to think for yourself.Find the facts for yourself. Make up your own minds. You are not cattle and you do not need others to tell you what you want and don’t want. You don’t need warning form agenda driven folks, who feel the need to lie instead of standing by their own campaigns
Wait. Stop. Think.
A campaign that would want to decieve you and lie would not ask you to do your own research into the facts. It would not ask you to make your own mind up. It would not need to do smear campaign against others. IT is satisfied with being true and honest in it’s own values.
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15 July 2005 10:29, by Anonymous
As much as I am not a B/A fan, I have a hard time believing this is some evil plan to suck money from people.I think all the ads done for all the actors over the years are beautiful.
Also if you are just trying to warn us, what does Spike being invoved or not involved have to do with it? So if he was, you would not think it was a bad campaign?
I am Cordy fan. I detest the need to have Spike come over and take her spot. I detest the need to say he was the only reason Angel was ever good. That was not nor will it ever be the case. Angel was very good without Spike. I detest the need to make this universe about ships, but I am not stupid enough to listen to person who can not supply facts.
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15 July 2005 14:08, by Anonymous
The original post was about their original prefernece and saying this campaign was a falsehood set to rip of fans. That is not true. And proven to be not true.
The idiot who claims she is not ramses but says she speaks the truth was debunked and erased, yet she tries to claim something that has no baring and she could never prove. You make incrediable ass of yourself as everyone sees that you have no validity to your arguments and can not prove anything besides empty words. Good bye to you.
I still do not see the point of attacking because they do not want spike and want a happy B/a ending. It only shows a different taste. An insistance that the march to the same drum and include him in it not only arragant but rather rude as the Spike campaign has no intr4st in incuding any one But him in anything. Why must they do it then. This not a campaign about him. But for him. The Spike campaign is not being attcked an ordered to include others, because they also exsist in this universe are they?
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15 July 2005 14:15, by Anonymous
No my dear, They protest becasue you are lying piece of shit and have no care who you attack or why. It is because you are as low as scum that there is. You care not for the truth but to install lies and deceit wherever you go.
You say things that have no foundation and are easily discredited and when it gets right down to this the ONLY thing a person can find wrong with this campaign is SPIKE is not included. Nothing more. One character is not included , so all out smear campaign is set forth.
I know others like him, I know othesr want him included. Since we all know he would be in a big screen movie, but the FOCAS of this is B/a why is it a problem? But why should a campaign that has nothing to do with him, that is B/a oreinted be forced to include him when his does not include ANYONE else. Neither does the Faith one? Just answer that?
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15 July 2005 14:21, by Tina
I help run the SavingAngel effort. I have never seen ANY other one that has Faith as the lead but ours. This persons claims are wrong. Ours is the only one with and about Eliza and Faith. Please come and join. We have different stages. all help for Eliza only is appreciated;
I will also say this, we have no intrest in including Spike or anyone else in our campaign. We will not be anti-spike but we will also will not actively include him or do anything for him or any other character. This is their effort ,That is ours. Good luck to all.
Thanks
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15 July 2005 14:30, by Tina
How many actively campaign for whatever they like and whatever show they want and actually get it. Does that mean they stop? Think of the Star Trek fans. Think of the Rosewell fans. the Mulder and Scully ones.
Two years people campaign long and hard to save Angel and it did not work. Infact it failed. So should there never be another save this show effort?
What gives anyone the right to say others can not pull together alot of people for something they want and actively try and make it happen? because the chances of it happening could be slim does that mean it should stop?
The Spike show/tv mini is a very slim chance, but no one has slowed down. With the less liklyhood of it everyday, does that mean they need or are demanded to stop? No freaking way. So just becuas Joss is unlikely to do it orothers are not fans of itdoes not make this abad campaign, a wrong one or even a deceitful one.
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15 July 2005 16:32, by Anonymous
Where’s the proof of these accusations? Oh wait, that is what a smear campaign is all about. Lies, but not one shred of actaul truth. GOT IT.
Spike is one character out many He may also be popular. But Buffy will always be the one people want.
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15 July 2005 18:19, by Anonymous
Whatever fan-base leanings the original response-poster might have, he/she is correct in pointing out the serious flaw in this campaign: that it does have a heavily slanted agenda. No one reading the description on that site could say that this campaign is sprung from a fan group which simply wants *any* quality version of a big-screen BtvS or AtS film or that this group trusts Joss to navigate his own mythology by himself. To attempt to influence him by offering loaded suggestions is disrespectful. Moreover the omission of Spike is palpably blatant. Any campaign that is worth its salt should include as large a fan universe as possible, uniting the various sects in order to create a strong voice, not polarizing them and making it plain that splintering groups is more important than achieving the film. Joss knows that Spike is one of the three most popular characters — if not the most popular — of the buffyverse and that the immortality of the buffyverse is going to happen partially because of the heavily-positive critical/scholarly/fan concentration on what he did with Spike. He also knows that his fan-base is rabidly opinionated and fiercely territorial in all sorts of scattered directions. So, since he knows all of this, the campaign’s text does come off as sounding unsophisticated and unwise. Nobody benefits when the greater fan-base is splintered. Try gathering the army for real next time rather than starting civil skirmishes.
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15 July 2005 18:59, by Anonymous
I liked Riley. meanie!!!!!
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15 July 2005 19:12, by Jetsam
Real fans would watch anything Buffy related, and that includes other series by its creator Joss Whedon. It’s his vision that’s important, the way he constructs and directs the stories and the characters, not the actual characters themselves. So don’t bother arguing over who should end up with whom, just enjoy the stories they tell. Okay people?
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15 July 2005 19:18, by jo
Kat - I’m curious as to why you presume to know anything about my feelings on the show or the characters. I’m not a part of an anti-Spike ANYTHING. Do I like the character? Well, that’s a tough question. I was sick of him in the last two seasons of BtVS and I think the way his character was written was a big part of why the show went downhill. I actually really liked him on AtS again, because he was written the way he ought to be written, and not to the detriment of any other character. So I’m actually kind of split on Spike as a character in the verse. If there’s a movie, Spike WILL be in it. I know it, and the B/Aers responsible for this campaign know it. But wow! Heaven forbid I don’t like Spike or Spuffy! I guess that means my opinion on everything else is shot to hell then. I’m very open with my likes and dislikes; honesty is something that I and many B/Aers embrace. The haters should look into it some time. I think you’re the one who doesn’t realize that other opinions exist; I’m not actually a huge part of this movie campaign, but I don’t attack Spike or Spuffy fans during any of their own, or claim that they have ulterior motives to further my own agenda. You know jack shit about how I feel about the characters and the stories or what I would love to see in a big screen movie, so think before you post next time. Oh, and once again, everything becomes ALL. ABOUT. SPIKE. You want proof he and his fans destroyed the verse? Look in the mirror.
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15 July 2005 19:21, by fran
well..right off i’ll admit..big spike fan..however i think this whole discussion is moot..the bangle or spuffy is not going to happen..and you can collect donations..for what ever reasons at what ever sites..and take swipes at each other until hell freezes over and it wont do you a lick of good..yeah us old ladys over here at angel and buffy over 30..donated..and sent postcards..the whole nine yards...but..its time to move on..its a show..its over..do what i did..bought all the buffy and angel dvd sets..so i can continue to enjoy them..and the wonderful workmanship of joss...fran
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15 July 2005 19:57, by jo
Kat - OK, clearly I need to think before I post as well. I’ve been reading all these negative posts and it angered me so much that I took it out on you. I overreacted, and I apologize. Even though I don’t agree with you, I shouldn’t have let myself be sucked in to these pointless debates. You seem like a reasonable person, so I don’t wish to continue an argument. Truce.
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15 July 2005 21:22, by Kat
Truce accepted and respect to you for offering it, it means that you are a reasonable person too. I’m sorry I over-stepped the line by insulting you personally -I’ve obviously mis-judged you. There are nutters in both camps and we both seem to have been so wound up by them that we made the mistake of tarring each other with the same brush as them. Perhaps we can set an example here :-) be just accepting that we can disagree and still respect each other.
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15 July 2005 21:54, by Anonymous
So should the Spike campiagn be made to open to include ALL characters, even Buffy and Angel? That is what is being called for here. I don’t see them doing that do you??? A little hypocritical to attack on campaign while not allowing anyone else in yours and saying you will only promote him.Hmmmm.
Also the shirts are of a joke,dear, Joss one time said that some fans chased him down the street with torches. As a joke. See, get it now. But nice try on the anti-joss wank.
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15 July 2005 21:57, by Anonymous
The shirts are a JOKE, Joss actaully said. His words. No anger. What an ass.
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16 July 2005 02:00, by Anonymous
why the dislike of spike or is it james marsters or even both?
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16 July 2005 10:28, by Chiron
hi, newbie here. Does anyone really believe that SMG would be willing to do this? If not, it’s a moot point. I’m as passionate as anyone about my favorite ever TV series - obviously, or I wouldn’t be on this site - but people, get a life! - & maybe, for some of you, some anger management counseling.
As for me personally - no Spike, no interest, end of story. Peace out now.
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16 July 2005 14:56, by Anonymous
I didn’t know Joss made a comment about being chased with torches. It wasn’t a wank, but a real concern on my part. Perhaps that should be explained on the site so that you don’t turn people off who aren’t familiar with every obcure quote. Although, given how rude you were in a response to an innocent question I don’t think I’ll participate anyway.
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17 July 2005 22:05, by Eduardo
To me one of the things that sucks about those stuff is that the people bnehind seems to want to dictate what Joss would write, should a movie be made.
"We want to see Angel/Buffy, Gunn, Giles, some interaction between Ilyria and Spike..."
Oh fuck off...we are the viewers, not the producers...
We want a movie or whatever, but is up to Joss and who else is in it to decide this and that.
=)
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18 July 2005 02:12, by GL
HA! See, these are just a big group of Buffy/Angel fans who want to see more of Buffy/Angel’s relationship. I for one have nothing against the Buffy/Angel relationship, but I still think it is very wrong on what they are doing. If you’re going to set up a compaign for the movie, get everyone’s opinion on it before setting it up. I for one would LOVE to see SPIKE back. I love Spike. I love James. Hell, I’d love if they did a movie just about him. But, I am not a Spike/Buffy shipper. To be honest I love all the main relationships on the show as long as it wasn’t Buffy and Riley, lol. As far as I see it, the people on the Buffy/Angel movie campaign, are compaigning all on their own without the support of all the fans. James Marsters and Spike both have such a very strong following within girls, boys, women, and men who watch the show. I couldn’t see the fans not wanting Spike back for a movie. Now, I think that Joss is smart enough to not forget about Spike, due to his strong following of fans. Just like in season 7 of Buffy, he gave all the Spike fans a good scare by making them all think Spike was gone for good. But then he must have noticed that if he did take away Spike for good, an angry mob of Spike fans would have ended up on his doorstep. Hmm, so to make the rounds of my point, these people are simply anti-Spike, Buffy-Angel-relationship-loving, unfair-and-selfsolo, people.
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18 July 2005 18:30, by Anonymous
I am Ramses 2. Maybe the mod could point out that indeed, no other posters here share my IP addy. I have not been ’banned or slapped’ at any other board. I merely pointed out at another board that this campaign is not being orchestrated by Joss fans. The owners, Lucinda, Cheryl and Ruth can be found ranting against Joss on their other site the Haven. They also can be found discussing how best to show Fox that B/A ers are the most in number and desire a movie free of Joss. Understand that? This isn’t about no Spike in the movie. It’s about no Joss. No Joss. Now, these ’girls’ will tell you the campaign site is pro Joss. But you have to ask why their private board is so rabidly anti Joss? And is there a secret thread at the campaign site like their is at the Haven? If so....how do you know what you’re really signing up for? As for this being a shipping thing? Please note that I am known mostly as a Joss ’apologist’, sorry girls I happen to like what Joss gives us. I trust him enough not to demand things from him. If you’re such a fan, why do you feel the need to tell the man how to write his story?
If people want, I can start a thread at Cold Dead Seed showing Luc and Cheryl in their very anti Joss splendor.Or even here if the mods want. Then we’ll see who are the liars.
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19 July 2005 18:54, by Ramses 2
I appreciate that unsuspecting fans may believe I’m a troll. Well that’s fine, just appreciate that this troll happens to be a fan of Joss Whedon and only said anything about this campaign when Whedonverse chose to highlight it as Joss postive. At that point I felt fans who actually liked b/a as Joss told the story, and who would want to see more Joss stories might want to know that this very group at the Haven have posted over and over their loathing of Joss and their intent to show Fox there is an interest out there for a Joss free B/A movie. Here’s a little sample of the owner Cheryl’s real feelings for Joss:
Quote:
If that dirty little bastard, aka the fucking ass clown, slimey son of a bitch, weasel dick bastard and finally, filthy cocksucking motherfucker, didn’t secure SMG when he had the chance, he is far worse off than Blade even believes.
Does he think WE would support his firefly nightmare or anything else that has his name attached to it, IF he has strung us along for 8 fucking years, just to be ASS FUCKED in the end?
Cheryl
Giles’ "Administrative Assistant"
Re: Other Mutant Enema Crap
« Reply #351 on 6/14/05 at 22:53 » [Quote]
I think it would be good for us for two reasons, one you have already named, the other is that if it bombs he will be the most bitter bastard anyone has ever seen.
I still think we should publically announce again for ALL THE PTB to see, we want our Damn Buffy and Angel reunion movie. Firefly fans aren’t the only fans around.
Simply put, this was a buyer beware announcement for Joss fans from a Joss fan who’s had it with ’any’ campaign where fans try to manipulate Fox and Whedon.
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20 July 2005 10:30, by Anonymous
You seem to have a a vendetta. Against the founders of the Haven. Fine. But bringing priviate posts off a board that is not the campaign baord and has nothing to do with the actual campaign speaks of an agenda. You need to step back and take a breath.
Not all b/s shippers are evil. Not all b/s shippers are evil. Not everyone with the campaign is evil or dishonest. Not everyone at the site of the Haven which has a memebership of over 140 people are all the same or view things the same. Alot of b/aers from the BB also worked on this. I am one.
Just because the founders may view things a certain way, does not mean that everyone involved in it now, who work on or who are involved do. They may have views and may express them at one site , but people who join the campaign are not invovled and are not responsible for the views of a few in their midst.
Every shippers group has few crazies. This one is not the exception. Neither is any other.So posting thier priviate thoughts, does not inform it only masks and lumps alot of good people in with a few bad.
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20 July 2005 10:54, by Anonymous
So if someone from a Spike fan site bashes Smg in horrible, disgusting ways(which has happened), every fan on that site is to blame?
No.
So this woman has a filthy mouth and rather strong opinions. So. What does that have to do with the actual campaign? Maybe a few others share her thoughts to, but if you go to this campaign site, it has many members.
Some Facts:
Did this post come from the campign board?
No.
Is this the only B/a board on the web?
No.
Did only B/a fans from this board participate?
No.
Just because you help in a campaign or join a group, do you all think alike in EVERY way and EVERY aspect?
No.
Just because you vent in one place, does that mean you always think that way and can never calm down and think logically?
No.
Is the BB and every member of the Haven anti-Joss, spike haters ?
Is the campaign Anti-Joss?
No way. You can not have B/A the movie, withot Joss.
No.
Where are these posts from?
The Haven. Not the campaign board.
Does it matter in the long run?
No. Joss will do what Joss does. All campaigns will go on. Attacking this campign in the long run makes everyone in the fandom look bad, as you say everyone is responsible for a few.
I am from the Babble Board. I worked on this campaign. It is for a Booster convention coming up soon. The ad is out. It is done.It is beautiful. Please go to the BB to see it. The Booster Con, has us working side by side with many from SupportSpike. None who have a problem with Ruth or anyone else but these four this person keeps mentioning.
I can say I have a problem with a few Spike fans too, but I would never say they represent the Spike campaign because one owns a certain website, or says some nasty things on her private fanpage. I would say don’t bring your nasty views to my cause. Leave them at the door. That was what these people have done.
Thanks.
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20 July 2005 23:20, by jesse
Ramses 2 wrote:
"Whedonverse chose to highlight it as Joss postive."
No, they chose to highlight it as a campaign for a future Whedon production. It is a campaign for a Joss Whedon written/directed/produced movie. They’re asking JOSS for a movie.
Besides, plenty of fans from various fan factions (not just Bangel or Spuffy) have made negative comments about Joss at one point or another. That doesn’t mean the overall group to which they belong shares the same opinion.
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