"I don’t make this up myself"
Could have fooled me.
"It’s canon"
Where exactly?? Make with the quotey here because it’s in no cannon I’ve ever seen.
"He knew exactly what had happened between the Scoobies and Buffy. He told this to Buffy"
No, he really didn’t. For starters he blames Faith, probably because she was the one who waded in and told him to shut up. Buffy had tell him it was all of them. He didn’t know he guessed - it wasn’t exactly hard to read between the lines that they’d been a major disagreement that had probably involved most people. I don’t blame Faith for the record, I don’t blame anyone. I think like many things it was down to differences of opinion. I’m angry at both Anya and Rona the moaner who behaved like bitches but beyond that just one of those things. Just thought I’d point that out before you accuse me who push the blame away from Spike onto other people.
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"But no one has ever told him. He knew it because he knew the Scoobies and he knew Buffy. Just like he knew everything about them in Yoko Factor"
No, he guessed a few things in the "Yoko Factor" too - you say him see Willow touch Tara on the neck and then make the comment about them saying Willow and magic as a veiled reference to Tara. Beside no one is the same as they were in the "Yoko Factor" they’ve all changed. Unlike the "Yoko Factor" no one is shit stiring here - it’s just a situation with a lot of folks dealing with a lot of pressure badly.
"But he still had an amazingly lack of concern for Buffy’s situation for months"
No one apart from Buffy respects Spike. Giles says "I’ll never want your opinion" in "Once More with Feeling" and although a throw away line he means it. If he’d said something no one would have listened. The real problem of Buffy’s situation in s.7 is she’s carrrying too much responsibility and sadly no one can really help her with that.
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"He stands by and let the drama evolve itself, just like he stood by in S6 and let himself become her attempted rapist"
He didn’t set out to do that, he actually was trying to apologise at the time but just didn’t understand why she wasn’t coming back, it was the "Gone with the Wind" delusion and a whole ton of desperation. Like the guy who shot his recent ex in "I Only Have Eyes for You" it was something "stupid done in a moment of blind passion". How can you understand someone leaving for moral reasons if you don’t see it?
"Kennedy is a bitch because she was portrayed that way"
Yet you say she’s protective of Willow and fights for her - not the quality of a bitch in my opinion. A bitch to me is someone who doesn’t give a toss about anyone but themselves. Maybe we’ve got different definations here. Kennedy can be over-assertive and bolshy but wouldn’t say bitchy.
"She doesn’t get fleshed out, she doesn’t remains a character who’s obnoxious and without personality"
Again, opinion which I don’t agree with, her care for Willow, her assertiveness and the fact she speaks against Buffy are character traits. She is sometimes obnoxious but that’s a lot of people and it’s the flip side of being assertive.
"But she was good for Willow regardless of that"
At least we agree on something but then why say that Willow’s character was poorly served by being in relationship with someone who was like that.
"Being a bitch or an asshole doesn’t equal dislike"
They’re not exactly complimentary terms, again maybe your definations are different to mine but I wouldn’t want those labels, they seem to imply contempt.
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"There is lot more necessary for that. Kennedy was forced on Willow, badly worked out, and basically used to remove her from Buffy so that Spike can have solo screentime with her"
Again, don’t agree. I think it was to give Willow something good in her life to show that she could at least begin to live despite Tara dying on her and as someone else said to try to get us to give a damn about at least one of the potentials.
"Buffy had free will? No, she did not. She was suffering a huge depression. She couldn’t deal with it"
Unless you are screwed up enough to be institutionalised then you have free will. People deal with depression in lots of different ways. Saying I thought Buffy behaved badly does not mean that I am without sympathy for her or that I think she’s a heartless cow. It is a fact that sometimes when you are going through hell you take others along for the ride, I’ve seen people do it in real life. She, like Spike did, acknoweldged this and tried to rectify it the best way she could in season seven.
"Spike doesn’t have a soul but that says nothing about free will. He has all the free will in the world. And he choose to use her"
True, but it does say something about his perspective on life. He couldn’t understand how tormented by guilt she was because he didn’t feel it himself, something which is said in "Never Leave Me". He’s saying look I understand now what was tearing you apart.
"This whole lack of a soul argument is nothing but positive discrimination. If you want that Spike should have been treated equally, you should look to his actions and not to what or who he is"
You have to compare like with like here - you are comparing his actions to those who had the moral equipment to know better so to speak. It’s also down to experience to he hadn’t been in a serious relationship with a person who wasn’t an immoral, insane, sado-masocist before and ergo did not know how to behave towards such a person.
"Buffy never called Xander discusting. She went way further. She said nothing to Xander. She always swallowed her rather angry feelings for him and did as if she was his friend, his sister"
Because she cared about him too much to vent these directly and wanted to spare him pain probably.
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"This became more than apparent in S6 where she doesn’t come to him as friend for her problems, for comfort, but to the man she hates, the man he hates"
Two factors at play here. One Buffy states in "CDWP" - "I didn’t want to be loved" and I think this is true she was too screwed up to handle a real relationship of any sort. You have to have some stable sense of self before you have a real bond with someone else. The second is that she feared Xander’s condemnation. She knew that he would have been shocked by her attraction to Spike and she was right - when he found out the first thing he did was tear into her verbally (which in fairness to him he did apologise for afterwards). How can you turn to someone who you know will condemn you?. You are right, Xander is heroic (no one but an idiot would deny it) but he has his flaws and he does just see red when it comes to men in Buffy’s life that he considers to be unsuitable.
"She asked for his friendship, for his support and denying this from him is much more hurtfull"
She never denied Xander friendship. She was distanced from her friend because she was distanced from life. Everyone around her suffered because of that. That would have happened with or without Spike it was a sympton of the depression. Someone on another board basically left her boyfriend because he was just picking at the relationship all the time and although she loved him she couldn’t stand it anymore. People with depression are not easy to live with. Besides I fail to see how cutting yourself from someone is more hurtful than using their body and then telling them they suck afterwards.
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"Xander had to fight to be supportive for her, Spike got it for free, he got because she hated him"
And you say that she’s wasn’t abusing him.
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"Xander had to fight to be respected as a fellow warrior, something it is doubtful he ever really got"
Yes he did, Buffy told him in "End of Days". "You are my strength, I never would have got this far without you" in "Checkpoint" she replies to a watcher who says Xander doesn’t have any special abilities by mentioning that he’s clocked "more field time than all of them put together. He’s part of the unit".
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"Xander simply had to fight to even be seen by her"
No I think saving her life in Prophercy Girl did that. In season seven she had to focus on the warriors it was a big dangerous fight and she needed to train those who were going to have to physically fight it. The Potentials got most of her attention. She spent a lot of time talking to Wood because she worked with him and she needed someone to talk to about stategy.
" And this was made very painfully clear in First Date and in Empty Spaces where when she in anger tells Giles that the only person she can trust her back with is Spike"
That’s because she’s angry at Giles and the comment is obviously directed at Giles without reference to anyone or anything else.
Look I know Xander’s a hero and that he suffered a lot too. Again, a lot of this is said in the spirit of the general rights of characters. I know you’ve got the right to your opinion but it annoys me it’s so willfully and vindictively negative - every action is interpreted in the worst possible light and not one shread of credit is ever given even for trying. I can’t believe that everything you hate or dislike in the verse wouldn’t have happened if just one character was removed it doesn’t strike me as being very reasonable. The verse is over for the moment, you do not have to watch a Spike movie by all means enjoy the Willow and Ilyria ones if they are separate. Why bother voicing your all consuming hatred in a thread which started about news of something others will appreciate. You don’t like it - fine, vote with "off" switch it’s your right is a consumer as it is mine to watch it.
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