Felicia Day

Below is a feature on Felicia Day and the Web series "The Guild." For related sidebars on other Web series worth checking out and on women in Hollywood, go here and here. An edited transcript of my interview with Day follows the feature below.

Will the Internet save or kill television? Is the entertainment industry sexist? What’s the future of scripted entertainment and will hidebound Hollywood change its ways fast enough to embrace it? On a sunny day in May, in the prop-strewn yard of the house her team had borrowed for the filming of the fourth season of "The Guild," which premieres Tuesday, actress, writer and Internet entrepreneur Felicia Day talked with friendly verve about all those things.

She wouldn’t be the first to say it — she’s far too self-effacing for that — but Day, who also starred in Joss Whedon’s "Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog," has spent the last three years quietly sidestepping or proving wrong much of the conventional wisdom about those complicated topics. She’s turned "The Guild" into a genuine online hit and done it on her terms, even as she’s maintained a career as as a working actor on shows such as "House," "Lie to Me" and "My Boys."

"I go to auditions, and all the actors and usually the casting assistants, will know me from my Internet work — either ’Dr. Horrible’ or ’The Guild,’" Day said. "But I’ll go into the [casting] room, the people who could actually hire me don’t really know of it. They’re busy doing multi-million dollar projects. So it is a really funny position to be in. But the change, especially in the last year, has been kind of crazy. I think the next couple of years will see a huge shift in the perception of... making Web content as a profession and an art form."

Ignoring the unspoken edict that actors should be seen and not heard from, Day wrote and produced the deft and entertaining "Guild," which blossomed into an online phenomena with more than 50 million views. Most surprising of all, perhaps, is the fact that "The Guild" is set in the world of gaming, which is (erroneously) perceived as a largely male activity.

"The Guild," which is funny and well-made enough to appeal to people who don’t game regularly, stars Day as Cyd Sherman (gaming handle: Codex), the reluctant ringleader of a gaming guild that has run into more than its share of comic mishaps. The finely honed ensemble is always a treat, but I must single out the comic skills of Jeff Lewis, who plays Vork, a Guild member who seems somewhat befuddled and slightly offended at all times.

Like the shy Codex, who’s become more assertive as she’s tried to keep the squabbling Guild members together for three seasons, Day has also gained confidence from the increasing success of her foray into online entertainment. "I would definitely say that Codex was a very difficult character in the beginning to write because she was so passive, but that was true to who she was," Day said. "Now, this season, she’s much more assertive and going out into the world a little bit more and she’s having this relationship that she’s being a little bit more proactive about. It’s a lot easier to get her in trouble."

After funding the first season of "The Guild" via favors and viewer contributions, in 2008, Day and her fellow producer, Kim Evey, struck a distribution deal with Microsoft. They retain creative control of "The Guild," but new episodes of the show, which are three to eight minutes long, premiere first on Xbox 360 Live and other Microsoft portals before migrating to the Guild site and other venues.

"Without Microsoft, there’s no way we could have done Season 3 or this season, because of the budget," said Evey, who noted that the script for Season 1 of "The Guild" was 70 pages long, but later seasons were over 105 pages. "Season 3 was hugely ambitious. She introduced a rival guild, so that was five new characters [including a ruthless gamer played by actor and Internet celebrity Wil Wheaton], we had two locations that we had to wrangle, at times we had 11 actors [on set]."

Evey adds that, unlike some other sponsors or companies experimenting with Web series, Microsoft had no desire to change "The Guild’s" content or put the Xbox brand front and center.

"Obviously, there’s a fit there, because they had a gaming platform that they wanted content for, and this was a show about gamers. So that was kind of a no-brainer," Evey said. "But by the same token, what they didn’t do was come in and go, ’Well, you know, how it would fit better with Xbox? Your show seems to be kind of more about "World of Warcraft," but we’re Xbox and we don’t have that.’ They didn’t come in and start tinkering, they just said, ’Oh, this is a good show that people who enjoy what we are marketing would enjoy.’" Both women note that they’re not going to get rich from "The Guild," but the sponsorship deal allows Evey and Day to pay themselves to work on the series full-time and to develop new online endeavors that they hope to announce soon. They’re also able to pay two or three dozen cast and crew members on the "Guild" set.

"We try to be fair, but people are still working for us at very, very reduced rates," said Evey, who put the budget for a season of "The Guild" in the six-figure range. "We do pay up front, it’s not deferred, but it is like working on an indie feature."

Day and Evey are similarly frugal with marketing and advertising. When it comes to using social media to market entertainment, the "Guild" team and Day, who has 1.7 million followers on Twitter, have few peers.

Felicia day guild "Ninety percent of the work is after the Web series is shot, and you have to constantly maintain your community, because it’s is all you have," said Day, who will make her annual pilgrimage to San Diego Comic-Con at the end of July. "If you’re not engaging your fans and giving them opportunities to interact with your show, you’re missing the whole point of Web content. It’s not just about the video, it’s about creating the community."

A community actually kick-started the creation of "The Guild." When she met Evey at an improv class several years ago, Day had had a recurring role on "Buffy" and had other credits under her belt, but, like most actors, she found it difficult to sit at home and wait for the phone to ring (instead, she spent a lot of time playing "World of Warcraft" online). Evey, who co-created the online show "Gorgeous Tiny Chicken Machine Show" with her husband, Greg Benson, belonged to a goal-setting support group of like-minded Los Angeles women, and she invited Day to join. Not long after, Day arrived with the script for the first season of "The Guild," which debuted in 2007.

Three years later, "The Guild" has built a rabid online following, racked up an impressive list of awards, and Day’s former "Buffy" boss, Joss Whedon, turned to her for advice when he was planning his own 2008 Web series, "Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog," in which Day appeared as Penny. Yet despite all the acclaim and attention, Day isn’t doing what Hollywood expects her to do — using "The Guild" to leverage herself into a more lucrative gig.

felicia day "When I tell somebody, ’I don’t know if the right move is to make this into a TV pilot,’ or a movie or whatever, they look at me like I’m an alien," Day said. "I think a lot of people think the end-all, be-all is to be a part of that Hollywood machine. For me, I love what I do all day. It’s much more difficult and I can’t pay people as much as I would love to pay them in a mainstream Hollywood way. But I pay my bills with what I’m doing and it’s very fulfilling."

As Whedon himself pointed out in an 2009 Tribune interview, those in mainstream Hollywood who want to work in the online realm have to scale down their expectations.

"The artistic community is more and more left out of the [big entertainment conglomerates’] equation, so the trick is going to be finding out how to make the Internet work in such a way that people [can get by] because it’s not going to pay TV money. It’s not," Whedon said. "In fact, people are going to have to be entering the business less with the idea of making a fortune and more of the idea of just making product, getting it done, getting it out there and then hoping that there is a way in which it can support [a creative community]."

Industry executives and creative types who are used to measuring success via Nielsen ratings and paychecks with lots of zeroes on the end can’t quite wrap their heads around what success in the online realm requires — authenticity, community building and a lot of work for smaller financial rewards. Rob Corddry’s entertaining "Childrens Hospital" recently made the leap from online endeavor to TV show (the medical-show parody debuted on Cartoon Network’s Adult Swim July 11 and it’s well worth checking out), but that’s the exception, not the rule. And not necessarily the goal for all Web series creators.

"It makes me tired to have to explain what I’m doing to an agent or a producer or an executive, because unless you’re in the Internet culture, you can’t explain it to people verbally," as Day said. "They’re part of the culture or they aren’t. If I sit and explain it [to them], it’s not going to become clearer."

felicia day red But Day by no means rejects the mainstream Hollywood machine — she frequently auditions for roles in TV shows and she stars in the upcoming Syfy movie "Red," which supplied her with, as she happily pointed out, "a real trailer!"

"Having a bigger crew, being able to do all the great things that Hollywood does so well" is nice, Day said. "But what I’m doing now is not a mere stepping-stone to becoming a mainstream Hollywood actor or producer or writer."

Day’s got plans, however. She wants to "steal away" some time soon to write a pet project she’s been mulling for some time, and of course going to conventions and launching Season 4 of "The Guild" will keep her busy. But she’s not about to stop reveling in the independence her online endeavors have given her.

"I’m in a very fortunate position, in that if I had an idea, and I could do it on a Web budget, I could probably get it made," Day said. "It’s just a question of finding the time to really develop it, because I don’t want to make anything that I don’t believe in 100 percent."

Below is an edited transcript of my interview with Felicia Day.

Ryan: It’s just kind of sad to think that in this day and age, there’s still kind of this an old boys network in Hollywood.

Day: I think it’s very hard in Hollywood for women — in Hollywood, you’re [treated one of two ways:] Either as an actress, so you look really pretty and perfectly polished and you’re treated as eye candy, like an object. If you see [female] screenwriters and producers, you notice that they dress down, and I think it’s a function of being taken seriously, a little bit. I know that if I dress much less glam… I’ve had some professional studio meetings, and the ones where I really got glammed up, I’ve had questions like, "You didn’t really write that script, did you?" I’ve actually had a couple of producers or executive people ask me that to my face.

Then, when you dress really down, put the glasses on and look more nerdy — there’s no question about [who wrote the series]. So it is kind of a double standard in a sense. And I don’t think it’s just from men, it’s also the way actors are perceived in Hollywood. Unless you’re in Hollywood, you don’t really understand how actors are treated — either like dirt, or you’re a god, and there’s no in-between.

It’s funny to be in a position where I’m doing my own stuff — it makes me want to produce and write more, because you do get more respect in general because of that.

Ryan: It seems like there are often more obstacles for women or minorities, but you and your friends said, "Let’s not even try to scale the obstacles. Let’s just do our own thing."

Day: You can do either. I think both are really interesting. I’m almost at the point where, I’ve done this for three years now and I’m kind of tired of explaining it, because people either get it or they don’t, and trying to explain what I’m doing to people — unless you know about it, you probably aren’t going to get it. And I hate to say that. It makes me tired to have to explain what I’m doing to an agent or a producer or an executive, because unless you’re in the Internet culture, you can’t explain it to people verbally. They’re part of the culture or they aren’t. If I sit and explain it [to them], it’s not going to become clearer.

I’m happy doing what I’m doing. Trying to break through that kind of glass ceiling to get through to that mainstream Hollywood thing is not [the goal]. I’ve kind of given up on it. The people who are looking forward and looking to cross over into [the realm that "The Guild" is in] are going to get it and they’re going to do research and they’re going to know what I do. I’m not wanting to be arrogant about it. It is very tiring because some people just don’t see the value there, and I think a lot of people think the end-all, be-all is to be a part of that Hollywood machine. For me, I love what I do all day. It’s much more difficult and I can’t pay people as much as I would love to pay them in a mainstream Hollywood way. But I pay my bills with what I’m doing and it’s very fulfilling.

So when I tell somebody, "I don’t know if the right move is to make this into a TV pilot," or a movie or whatever, they look at me like I’m an alien, if they’re from that part of the media world. Because they think, "Well, everybody’s trying to get here."

Ryan: Right. Because everyone they encounter in their world wants to be there or wants to get there.

Day: Exactly. And it is increasingly a segmented world. It’s funny, because I go to auditions, and all the actors and usually the casting assistants, will know me from my Internet work — either "Dr. Horrible" or "The Guild." But I’ll go into the [casting] room, the people who could actually hire me don’t really know of it. They’re busy doing multi-million dollar projects. So it is a really funny position to be in. But the change, especially in the last year, has been kind of crazy. I think the next couple of years will see a huge shift in perception of value, and just [in the perception of] making Web content as a profession and an art form.

Ryan: It’s not all about, "I’ll do this, then I’ll get a pilot!" Is that what everyone expects of you?

Day: Yes. They’re like, "Why aren’t you doing a pilot?" And I do audition for pilots. I just did a Syfy movie. It’s not like I don’t want to play in that playground. It’s very fun — I had a real trailer! [laughs] There’s nothing wrong with that. Having a bigger crew, being able to do all the great things that Hollywood does so well [is nice]. But what I’m doing now is not a mere stepping-stone to becoming a mainstream Hollywood actor or producer or writer. I think that’s something that people who are in Hollywood don’t 100 percent understand sometimes. Not to generalize, because there are a lot of people who do get it.

Ryan: In terms of your career path, "The Guild" takes up a lot of time, obviously, but you’re also auditioning and doing mainstream TV work as well. If you had to choose, which one would you do?

Day: I’ve been thinking about that a lot because it would be a big decision to do a pilot. An actor like me, who’s a working actor but not a series regular — your goal is to get that full-time job where you’re just doing acting. And you go to every audition just hoping to get anything.

At this point, I love what I’m doing so much, I’m creating and writing and I’m doing comic books. Comic books don’t pay that much money and the Web is the Web, but I’m so happy doing what I’m doing that I’ve decided to be very selective. If there were a project or a pilot where I met the producers and the story and the part would be something I’d be really excited to do…yeah, it’d be a big decision to take a pilot, and it would have to be something where I’d really wake up in the morning every day and say, "I really want to play this role" versus, "Hey, this is going to make me tons of money and put me on a poster."

That, at this point, is not interesting to me. [Right now] I can do what I want and as long as the bills are paid, I don’t need to be rolling around in money.

Ryan: So you and Kim Evey are looking to expand with more Web series in the not-too-distant future, right?

Day: Yeah, we’re definitely looking this year. Everything with "The Guild" has been so all-consuming, it just grows and grows, and the pressures of that are bigger and bigger. We’re having to bring in more people just to help run the show. People don’t appreciate that when you’re on the Internet, it’s a 24/7 job. Even if you’re not releasing episodes, your show is living and breathing on the Internet because there’s a community around it. Ninety percent of the work is after the Web series is shot, and you have to constantly maintain your community, because it’s is all you have. If you’re not engaging your fans and giving them opportunities to interact with your show, you’re missing the whole point of Web content. It’s not just about the video, it’s about creating the community.

It is something that has grown to the point where we have to bring more people in to help us. And our aim this year is to produce other Web series. Kim and I are in the middle of developing a couple, and I have a pet project in the back of my mind — I’m going to try to steal away and get it down on paper. I’m in a very fortunate position, in that if I had an idea, and I could do it on a Web budget, I could probably get it made, it’s just a question of finding the time to really develop it, because I don’t want to make anything that I don’t believe in 100 percent.

Ryan: It must be cool to have something that you have ownership of.

Day: Yeah. And to be able to say no to people, because I know that the fans will support the show wherever it is. I don’t mean to be hokey about it, but I really do love the idea that — I was so unhappy, waiting for the phone to ring, waiting for someone to choose me and thinking about how I could change myself to make other people happy [so they would] hire me.

Now I can actually be secure and wake up every day knowing that everybody’s not going to embrace me, but I’m doing something that’s true to myself. I’m really putting myself out there, and I think we kind of all have an obligation to do that, because we all have such individual viewpoints. That’s what I love about the Internet. Even if it’s small-scale and you’re just posting on a forum, that’s an uncensored expression. That’s what I love. And then sometimes people hurt your feelings. Or say demeaning things about what you look like. I’ve learned not to go rabbit-trailing after that. Engaging the trolls — it’s hard to resist.

Ryan: But you are in a different position than you were in a few years ago. People know who you are, and you’re the public face of "The Guild."

Day: Yeah, it’s interesting. The Internet, it’s so anonymous and yet people do want to engage with [other] people. So I think for a Web series to be successful, you kind of have to have that person to identify with. And following my Twitter, you get to see how we’re making this show. We try to share [information] on the DVD, so you really can experience how we’re making it, versus "This is what I would like you to see."

The small increase in fame or whatever that I’ve experienced from this show makes me understand that’s something you should not pursue and it’s not really something that’s fun, to be honest with you. It’s conditional, for one, and it’s not that enjoyable because you feel like you have to be so guarded and on. And you feel like you have to please people all the time, which you really can’t do when you create.

So writing Season 4 for me was kind of hard, to get out of that mindset of, "What are people going to enjoy?" To create in an unfettered way, you can’t be thinking about the externals — "Can we afford to produce this? Are people going to like this story line? Am I betraying my character if I did this?" You can’t operate like that. Having the show more and more well-known — it was hard for me to psychologically get over it. But I’m really happy with the way it’s going. People are adding so much creativity. On a [bigger budget] TV or movie set, you couldn’t have people saying, "Hey, let’s do it this way!" or "Let’s put this funny prop in!" because you have to clear it on so many levels.

Ryan: Can you talk a little bit about what Season 4 is about?

Day: Wil Wheaton’s going to be back, I can confirm that. I don’t want to give everything away, but we have some interactions with some characters who have not been living in the same spheres before. And we have some really funny guest stars. There are some really wacky high-jinx that ensue.

Last season was kind of angst-y, and all about the idea that the Guild was falling apart, and I really wanted to solidify them as a group again. So this is a season where we can just let them live and there’s a little less threat to the integrity of the Guild versus their internal conflicts.

Ryan: So it’s more internal Guild stuff.

Day: Yeah.

Ryan: It seems to me that as the series has gone on, Codex has gotten more and more confident and independent. Do you feel in any way that you are sort of mirroring that path, that her story and your story are related that way?

Day: I think it’s interesting, I did notice that Codex is a lot more proactive this season. Last season she was more proactive and she was slowly gaining [confidence]. It’s kind of a privilege of doing a Web series — we aren’t doing a TV show, so we don’t have to keep our characters as static as a regular comedy would. We can have the characters grow from where they were.

I would definitely say that Codex was a very difficult character in the beginning to write because she was so passive, but that was true to who she was. Now, this season, she’s much more assertive and going out into the world a little bit more and she’s having this relationship that she’s being a little bit more proactive about. It’s a lot easier to get her in trouble. [laughs]