Just two topics today ... more on Spidey’s marriage and of course, Civil War...

Newsarama: Joe, all right, after all the hype, Civil War #1 finally hit comic books shops...

Joe Quesada: Hang on, before we get started on Civil War, I wanted to address something from last week with respect to the whole Spider marriage.

First, a poster by the name of “ThatTalkingGuy” made what I thought was a very good point. He really encapsulated the whole marriage for me.

“What made the Marvel Universe was a bunch of cool, new heroes that had flaws and spoke to people. Spider-Man’s flaw wasn’t that he was married to a supermodel. And Reed and Sue can get married because Reed and Sue were together since the beginning. They were always a couple, adding a ring doesn’t change anything because they are the same. And the kids don’t grow. Nor should they ever.

“Peter Parker never was a family man. It perverts the character to make him so. Peter Parker being young and having girl trouble, school problems, work problems, and feeling guilty about the death of his father figure and constantly lying and not being there for his mother figure is relatable. Peter Parker being old, married, with money problems and whining about his luck is pathetic. And Peter Parker being old, married, and content is boring.

“And I think it is kind of funny people are complaining about the status quo. The marriage is the very DEFINITION of the status quo. You can’t get rid of the damn thing. It just sits there, adding literally NOTHING to the stories. If anyone can tell me ONE good story that requires Peter and MJ to be married instead of living together or engaged, go ahead. If you can tell me that Spider-Man would have survived if he had married Betty Brant in the early issues of Spider-Man, go ahead”

Well said.

Let me add a few things to this. At the core of the FF, what makes them unique as a superhero team is that they’re a family. That is what lies at the heart of their construction. Now, while it’s nice to see things go well for Peter from time to time, don’t be under any delusion, we write good things into his life only to eventually take them away because that is what makes his stories work. It’s by taking those things away and watching him triumph and do the right thing regardless that really make his character special. Make his life comfortable PERMANANTLY and you hurt the character. The marriage to MJ is a permanent good thing that we added to Peter’s canon. It would be like having Peter win the lottery and not having the ABILITY to have him lose it all.

Here’s a very simplistic off the top of my head idea of how the wedding could have gone down while keeping in character to what Spider-Man stories should be. So Peter and MJ are engaged to be married, everything’s going perfectly for Pete and he’s anxiously awaiting to get married but MJ stands him up at the alter. We think it’s just cold feet or just plain old cruelness on her part and then we find out that one of Spidey’s villains captured her. As MJ’s at death’s door Spidey comes and rescues her and comes to the conclusion that his life is just way too dangerous so he has to let the girl go and break, not only the wedding off, but the relationship. Now, not only is this in keeping to the character of Spidey, it sets us up for Peter and MJ to find each other once again.

Also, Just for the record, because people seemed concerned, killing Mary Jane is not an option, zero zilch, that is one of the reasons why this whole marriage thing is such a tough thing to ever even imagine changing. Let me try to clearly explain what I mean.

First, lets talk about why I feel a youthful Peter Parker is something that was so important. Sure, some people here may say I like Peter married, just write him young and all will be okay. Let me ask you all this, do you remember when you were young, I mean 8, 10 years of age, maybe even 12 or 14. To me when I was that age, it didn’t matter if the person was 21 or 61, a married person always seemed very adult and older to me. It was something that big people did and then they became mommies and daddies. You have to put yourself back in that mind set to understand where I’m coming from.

So, let’s get ourselves in a younger frame of mind for this.

If the goal were to have a more “youthful feeling” Peter Parker, killing MJ is not an option. First of all, she is a major player in the Spider-Man Universe of Aunt May caliber. I will argue until I’m blue in the face that too many of the original cast members were killed off over the years to the point were so much was lost from the world of Spider-Man.

Please don’t get me started on killing Harry, that was just plain dumb. But also, killing MJ would only serve to make Peter feel older and matters worse. Now he’s a widower. Put yourself in that youthful mind set folks, think about it.

While we’re at it, divorce isn’t an option either. Look at it from my perspective, back in the day one of the things that I made clear to my writers who were going to work on Spider-Man was to please for the love of god, let’s show them as a happy loving couple. I wanted to have a title that showed how a strong loving couple could work things out like having Spider powers and just life in general.

In all frankness, it’s been really nice to see. So, divorcing them to me sends out completely the wrong message. Imagine you’re a mom and you’re buying little Bobby or little Betty Spidey Adventures or maybe Spidey Loves MJ and you’re watching the news one day and the broadcaster looks right at you and says, “Spider-Man is getting divorced, more on that after these messages.” Let’s just say that as a parent, I’d be upset by the sound bite, I could only imagine how the rest of the world would feel. And, once again, divorcing Peter would only serve to make him feel older.

And then there’s all the great stories that get inhibited by the marriage. But if you still want to argue about it, let me give you the single simplest and most compelling reason I can give you. Knowing that having a child or getting divorce, annulled, separated, or widowed and all those sorts of things aren’t an option, there is not a single story of a married Peter Parker that can’t be told with a single Peter Parker. On the other hand, the exact opposite isn’t true.

So, these are the obstacles that I look at ever day. Sure there are other ways to go back in time and start all over again, but then you basically tell people that the stories they’ve been reading since the wedding don’t count, not a good thing to do.

Now, I noticed that some folks were saying that they got into Spidey when he was married and it’s been cool with them and they enjoy it. So, to that I would argue that Marvel almost made a huge mistake years ago and Peter and MJ almost ended up with child. Imagine if this had come to fruition in the pages of the regular Universe. Now imagine me years later telling folks that giving Peter and MJ a child was a terrible mistake because it makes him seem even older and completely separated from what was at the core of making the character great. I would have folks telling me that I was wrong, that the kid was a good thing for Spider-Man to have as part of the canon.

So, I would argue that the marriage is exactly the same thing. You have to keep things in perspective; we tend to forget so easily. When Stan and company created the Marvel Universe; they aged Peter very quickly, in real time. But no one then knew that this was still all going to be around 40 plus years later. Back then the prevailing thought was that maybe they’d get four or five years out of a character, max. Somewhere along the line they realized they had to put on the breaks because if they kept going in the manner that they were going, well you can figure it out for yourself.

Okay, I’m done [laughs]...

NRAMA: That’s okay, we were watching Deal, or No Deal while you were talking...

So, moving onto Civil War..?

JQ: Let’s do it.

NRAMA: Now that Civil War #1 has hit, let’s hit it with a little more candidness than you could prior to its release. We’ve spoken to Tom Brevoort about the first issue, and we’re probably going to touch on some of the same issues, but let’s get rolling with looking back at the early days of Civil War. As Tom mentioned, what came out this week what was in Mark Millar’s first draft isn’t necessarily what came out in issue #1. Remembering as best you can, what hasn’t changed since Mark’s first run at it?

JQ: The core concept has been unwavering since the beginning. We knew the story we wanted to tell and we knew where we wanted it to take us. There has been no changing on the fly to the heart of the story and we’ve always known the ending with the exception of a few minor tweaks that occurred at our last creative summit several months ago (thanks, Joss!).

That to me was one of the beauties of Civil War, the story really wrote itself very quickly and that was a good sign that we were onto something special.

What has changed since the initial concept and pitch are some of the character moments, reveals, and revelations. Those all came out of story and many were thrown out because they didn’t serve the story at all. As Mark and everyone involved with Civil War began working on their stories, more and more ideas came to the forefront and greater possibilities with it. In the end, we policed each other very well to make sure that everything that was happening in the series came from story. Too many times we see events forced into these big blockbuster stories in order to meet some sort of forced agenda, not so in Civil War.

NRAMA: How many drafts did issue #1 go through?

JQ: I honestly lost count, but I believe it was something like eight drafts plus some minor tweaking afterwards. Mark just wouldn’t let it go until it was perfect. He wanted it to be all the best of what these big events can be rolled up into one, not a panel wasted, not a word without meaning.

NRAMA: Conversely, can you remember anything that got thrown out early? Tom mentioned that Happy Hogan was slated to die from the start - which presumably would’ve brought Iron Man into a central role from the start...

JQ: Yes, Happy was going bite it. There were so many things that came and went that it’s hard to remember them all because they might have been a thought for less than 24 hours before we shot them down. Our conference room is littered to this day with rejected Civil War subplots. My understanding is that Tom has been keeping a list of sorts and we’ll be showing fans a lot of that behind the scenes stuff in a Civil War Director’s Cut.

NRAMA: Is Happy safe for now?

JQ: Yes. I’m sure he would have been missed... [snort].

NRAMA: Speedball - as regular Joe Friday readers know, you’ve had it in for him for months now...was that all foreshadowing?

JQ: Of course. It was and it still is (hey, what the heck does that mean?). Sometimes Joe Fridays is like a weekly Da Vinci Code - a veritable electronic Rubik’s Cube. I throw stuff out there for people to read between the lines and decipher all the clues or just to get them talking. No one was even thinking about Speedball until we got everybody crazy over his death, now it’s got some weight to it [laughs]. By the way, I’ve been leaving Civil War clues and hints all over these Joe Fridays.

NRAMA: What played into changing the kickoff event from the initial draft’s murder of Happy to killing hundreds of kids? Was (and we recognize this is unfortunate to say) the explosion at the school more “real world” and believable in a way, in regards to what would get Congress moving?

JQ: We had to keep the real world, the mainstream in mind with respect to this story. We knew we had an event that was going to appeal to a wider audience than the typical fanman continuity jigsaw puzzle. This was going to be a story that was accessible and with clear ramifications for all our characters. Killing off Happy was just so darn insular. It’s the kind of thing that a new reader would just shake their heads and say, “so, who is this guy and why should I care?” Heck, it’s the kind of thing a long time fan would say as well.

So, we went a little deeper and keeping with the style of story that is Civil War. We went for an event that would truly resonate with people everywhere, not just comic fans. While you don’t know the names of every kid in that schoolyard, we all felt the tragedy behind it because it has echoed something we have all experienced in recent memory.

Remember, for me, while I love providing our fans with the best stories possible and while I love making our retailers a lot of money, I never want to do it at the expense of confusing readers whether new or old and ending up with something that in the end only succeeds on levels that don’t push our industry forward. I believe there’s a way to have your cake and eat it to, Civil War is going to prove that.

Another added bonus to the real world tragedy vs. Happy Hogan is that we all knew that the mainstream press would be more prone to cover this story if it’s hook was something they could all understand and wrap their arms around. How I hate BIFF! BAM! POW! mainstream comics press. Civil War is something that they had and have taken very seriously. I just came back from doing an ABC radio show with a reporter who told me he could wait for Civil War: Frontline. Outside of being a comics’ fan he was also an imbedded reporter and loves the idea behind it. He also mentioned that he would be sending issues of Civil War and Frontline to some pals he has on Capital Hill. As he told me, “this story is that important.” That made me feel great.

NRAMA: What are the reports you’re hearing back from retailers about the first issue in stores and response to it so far? JQ: Reports have been like nothing I’ve ever seen for any project I’ve ever been involved with or around. What makes the reports we’re getting extra special is that we’re hearing that more actual people, bodies for lack of a better word are picking up the book. So, reports of high sales and sellouts are unbelievably impressive because we’re hearing about many new readers who heard about it though all the amazing coverage it’s gotten and since Civil War didn’t carry a 50/50 variant inducing many to buy two copies at cover price.

NRAMA: Back to the story itself, at the start, bluntly, what were the New Warriors thinking? They were fighting villains that outclassed them in a residential area. They Knew This - and went in anyway...

JQ: What were they thinking? Come on, this is the kind of thing that happens in comics all the time; it’s just that we choose form the most part to give the reader a cheerier outcome. Well, here’s what happens when you offer the alternative and that’s the point of Civil War, perhaps we’ll show you a side that you never considered.

And then I guess one could argue as well that the villains in question weren’t in costume or carrying any weapons so perhaps they just read the situation wrong with disastrous results.

NRAMA: Following up on that, how did the New Warriors, for lack of a better phrase, sink so low?

JQ: That’s the beauty of the Marvel Universe, just like life, one day you can be on top, the next, BOOM, you’re Speedball ... or should I say Speedbump.

NRAMA: This is gonna be the biggie - but what was so bad about this collateral damage to push society and Congress over the edge? There’s been collateral damage and innocents getting caught in the crossfire before in the Marvel Universe. What was so bad about this situation?

JQ: A few things. First, it was mostly kids in a playground, it was a group of young heroes, it was the fact that they were filming a TV show, and most importantly, the climate of the Marvel Universe has been quickly changing. There were already rumblings about a Superhero Registration Act, this event tipped the scales. If not this event, it would have been something else.

Remember, Black Goliath points out that Stamford isn’t the beginning, it’s just the latest and worse in a series of collateral damage that the Marvel Universe has been subjected to lately. Remember, we just had that horrible prison break as well.

NRAMA: In your view, what got the Marvel Universe here, to this point, that Congress was ready to propose such sweeping legislation as the result of something which, at another time, would’ve been labeled an “unfortunate accident” and seen as the price the U.S. must pay for living in the “age of Marvels”?

JQ: House of M was the opening salvo. The loss of all those mutants got the attention of many people in positions of power. With so many mutants depowered, the whole superhero landscape changed dramatically. It’s like super-power nation suddenly announcing that they’ve lost three quarters of their military and all of their nukes. You could be sure that other countries would be looking over at their borders and thinking thoughts that they may not normally have and there would also be internal upheaval. The power structure in the Marvel Universe has taken a radical shift.

NRAMA: Looking at the Marvel Universe, is it safe to say that it’s inherently more dangerous than the “real” world that we live in? Especially with all the major storylines lately, it doesn’t seem like it would be a very fun place to live in...almost seems like if you were there, you’d just be waiting until your time came - the Hulk smashed down in your town, the Skrulls invaded, etc...

JQ: That’s always been the case, we just haven’t focused on it in a while. Stories like House of M, Planet Hulk and Civil War shine a spotlight back on it.

NRAMA: This question wouldn’t be admissible in any court of law, but do you think that’s the way it was originally envisioned by Stan? Instead of being the “world outside your window,” it seems that the Marvel Universe is a place where the people don’t know who to be afraid of more - the heroes or the villains?

JQ: I think it was always set up that way. Remember, Spider-Man is supposed to be considered a menace and the X-Men are at their best when they’re feared and loathed. While there are some well-respected heroes, I believe that the human populace of the Marvel Universe has always been wary of them.

In many ways, it’s what differentiates our Universe from others. But after forty-plus years of publishing and team-ups, so many of our characters have grown familiar with each other, trust each other. Much of that unsettling feeling that use to prevail across the Marvel Universe is no longer there. While that’s okay for the fan who’s been reading for years and is as familiar with the characters and the Universe as the characters are themselves, we have to remember the person who is just discovering the Marvel Universe for the first time, whether they be 8, 18, or 48. While all is well and fine, I would argue that the Marvel Universe is at its best when it’s a strange and somewhat dangerous place.

NRAMA: On the production side of things, and putting your artist cap on for a moment, Civil War #1 was distinct in that virtually every page’s panels stretched across the full page, rather than a grid or more abstract format. Any particular reason behind this kind of approach by Steve [McNiven]?

JQ: Every artist has his or her own preference with respect to layout. You would have to ask Steve why he chose this method. I would suspect that because of the scope of the project that both Steve and Mark wanted wide vistas and huge panoramas in order to really get that feeling of grandeur across.

NRAMA: Back to the story - as Marks script evolved, were you ever caught off guard by the sides that some of the heroes took in regards to registration? Any you can name, if you were, and why?

JQ: No not really because that’s something that we planned out as a group. We put a lot of thought behind who fell where and even Mark felt that this was a decision that had to be made by all of us as a creative group.

NRAMA: Why was Reed so dismissive of Patriots idea of a strike?

JQ: I would suspect that he would feel that a strike would do more harm than good. Thee guys are heroes; could you imagine them sitting back or on a picket line as the bad guys ran rampant. How would that ultimately look or help the situation?

It would also make for a lousy comicbook. In this issue of Civil War, the heroes stand on the picket line.

NRAMA: Fair point ... So how is Daredevil at the hero meeting?

JQ: He took a cab.

NRAMA: Is it significant that he’s rolling a quarter? Doesn’t seem very Murdock-esque...

JQ: Yeah How about that?

NRAMA: Let’s get into Cap’s head in regards to registration. Why is he so strongly against it?

JQ: While Cap is an agent of the government, he is also a man with his own mind. He has always been about the American ideal and not so much the American way. He has a track record as a character of going against the government and or authority in the past if he felt that something worked at cross-purposes to that American ideal. The Registration Act doesn’t work for Cap, it’s as simple as that.

NRAMA: But still - Cap was a soldier. He took orders before as, basically, a federal employee, and it was what shaped him as a man, soldier, and hero. Why is it a bad thing now?

JQ: It’s not a bad thing, but I would argue that Cap would not follow orders blindly. If a General ordered Cap to march up the hill and ignore protecting the troops that followed right behind him, Cap in no way would follow that order. He’d find a way to storm the hill and protect his men at the same time. This could be the kind of thing he would get chewed out over, heck even disciplined for. Wouldn’t Cap be the first to say that Nazi’s who used the excuse, “I was just following orders,” while they sent Jews to their deaths in concentration camps are wrong? There’s so much more to what makes Cap tick than just wearing the American flag, that’s what makes him such an incredible character.

NRAMA: The whole registration - what is the government requiring? Name, social security, address, proof of “training”, and a list of regulations?

JQ: Yup, basically anything that would be expected of our enlisted personnel or our police officers. And the intent isn’t that the this information would be released publicly, but rather it would be used to make sure that every active superhero was properly trained and sanctioned, and even that they had the necessary support from the authorities in doing their job. Nobody’s trying to eliminate superheroes, they just want superheroes to be held responsible for their actions.

NRAMA: But still - if you dissect out the registration idea...it sounds about as hollow as...well, any legislation passed in the heat of the moment - good on the surface, but full of a whole lot of nothing. After all, the New Warriors fight, in light of Marvel history was an anomaly - inexperienced heroes going after more experienced villains in a public setting. What do the backers of registration actually see it doing?

JQ: As I said, it makes people accountable for their actions. Remember, most of our heroes wear masks.

Let’s play an imaginary game. So you’re walking down the street and suddenly walking towards you are a group of about five people wearing ski masks and brandishing automatic weapons. You look at them with fear and one of them says, “Nothing to worry about sir, we’re the good guys.”

As the weeks pass on, you start to see more and more of these masked, weapon carrying youths on the streets, your feeling of uneasiness grows. Some are calling themselves the Avengers, some the Defenders, another the Sinister Six and guess what, they’re robbing the bank on the corner. Suddenly the good guys come to save the day, there’s gunfire, injured people, perhaps a relative or someone you know is injured, and tons and tons of property damage. The Sinister Six are left for the cops and the supposed good guys have left the scene.

Now imagine this happens on a daily basis and there’s really no way to control it because in some circles, these good guys are highly regarded because they’ve managed to save the world on several occasions. So politically speaking, while there may be some who would like to seem them all outlawed and arrested, a moderate position would be to at the least get them registered and sanctioned much like our police or military, or dare I say... S.H.I.E.L.D.

NRAMA: Speaking of the whole registration in the first place and SH.I.E.L.D. - what more does the government want that SH.I.E.L.D. doesn’t already have on all these heroes? Identity Disc showed that the information is out there...

JQ: The identity disc was an urban myth; at the end of the story it was clear that it never existed. And while S.H.I.E.L.D. may have many of the heroes identities, that’s just one of the many things that are being asked of our heroes. The identity thing doesn’t solve the sanctioning and training issues.

NRAMA: S.H.I.E.L.D.’s soldiers sent to take down Cap - pussies or just not adequately trained?

JQ: Everyone’s a pussy compared to Cap.

NRAMA: “Leave Captain America to us.” Er, what does Iron Man mean by that?

JQ: It means that they’re all going to fight at some point, I promise you that!

[speaking of the duo, Marvel has released these banner images, for Internet fans to announce their alliances. To save one of both of these images to your hard drive, simply right click on it, and hit “Save Picture As”]

NRAMA: I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but occasionally, you talk about genies and bottles. During you’re tenure, you’ve been seen as one who likes to put them back into bottles, but this - the population is afraid of the heroes. The heroes are split. Is this something where this particular genie can be put back into the bottle? I mean, will we ever see Steve Rogers and Tony Stark sharing a cup of coffee again?

JQ: Genies usually give you three wishes, I’ve had three wishes for the Marvel Universe for a very long time. House of M covered one of them, Civil War will cover the second.

As for Cap and Tony, I don’t see any cups of coffee anytime in the near future. Perhaps they’ll share some punch, at least one or two.