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Sunday 16 October 2005, by Illyria101 : No Spike movie...:( I’m devasted :(Sunday 16 October 2005, by Anonymous : Who is that even from? Seems like a really foolish person decided to type that up. I really don’t think that Joss would tell all of his fans that there is a 99% chance of it happening and a 1% of it not, if he wasn’t even going to try to do it in the first place. All lies I tell you. I believe the Spike movie is coming! Spike Spike Spike!!Sunday 16 October 2005, by Anonymous : Season 4 episode 11: DoomedSunday 16 October 2005, by Megan : that qoute is from the the Season 4 episode "Doomed"Sunday 16 October 2005, by Anonymous : Just as I thought. I doubt it’ll ever happen. People will talk about it for years to come but I bet that’ll be as far as they’ll get with it. It’s all talk and no action.Sunday 16 October 2005, by Anonymous : Hmm, there’s an article on this site from the very same day that says this: "Finally, I’m hearing good,good,good, things on the “Spike” telemovie front. It’s coming together nicely. Should have more on that soon." It’s from that Moviehole site. Funny how that statement seems to fit with everything else that’s been said about the movie so far, yet this article just has some "highly placed sources" in the TV industry saying it’s not happening. I don’t buy it. Either the person who wrote this article made it up for the attention, or the contacts this person spoke to are mistaken. According to everything else we’ve heard, there was a definate interest in this happening, it wasn’t just crap that was being spread around. So I don’t wouldn’t really take this article seriously at all.Sunday 16 October 2005, by summers7 : How has Spike ’destroyed’ Btvs? That’s total rubbish. Sunday 16 October 2005, by Kat : I know Summers but I’ve been hearing that "Spike ruined Buffy" crap for years including from one of my own friends - tragically. Some people are just Luddites and some blame Spike for changes in the series that they didn’t like. I think he’s one of the most interesting people to ever grace our tv screens myself, aside from the fact he’s not bad to look either, but some folks just don’t share my opininion. I think they’re deluded but I guess they got a right to their opinion. At the end of the day if we do get a Spike film no one is forcing them to watch - something that some of them don’t seem to get. I inclined to believe that this news is rubbish as it contradicts everything else that has been said recently including from Joss himself. I think that we’ll see the return of Captain Peroxide yet :-) even if we have to wait for a bit. Sunday 16 October 2005, by Callistra : Ok well everyone already answered the q so anyway i dont think any of you should listen to this because both Joss there was gonna be a movie and there was an article where they interviewed Amy ACker and she confirmed that Joss contacted her about her in the role of Illyria again. Also this article is 79% while the Spike movie one was 99% so i wouldnt take this article too seriously either if it happens it will happens if it doesnt.... shit lol.Sunday 16 October 2005, by Anonymous : well I’d like to think this might actually happen for 2 reasons. Tim Minear said he’d been approached by Joss to write and direct the spike movie, so Joss’ other commitments won’t affect it that much. Second I believe that James himself said Joss had officially talked to him about it. I’m thinking when James has some time from Smallville it’ll get done . I don’t think Eliza or Amy or any other people they’d want to put in it would have a problem being free to film. Lastly with Serenity not doing gangbusters Joss may want to go back to the familiar terriotory of TV while he’s tackling WW. Just my 2 cents which may be all wrong :) Leigh Monday 17 October 2005, by Isabella Polidoro : Ya rite!They even had an article in the,"Angel Feturing Buffy,"Magzine!!!I HAVE it!!!!Monday 17 October 2005, by Anonymous : Spike...........ruined BTVS??? Absurd!!!! I only started watching it because of his character. Pish posh! Friday 21 October 2005, by Kat : "I don’t make this up myself" Could have fooled me. "It’s canon" Where exactly?? Make with the quotey here because it’s in no cannon I’ve ever seen. "He knew exactly what had happened between the Scoobies and Buffy. He told this to Buffy" No, he really didn’t. For starters he blames Faith, probably because she was the one who waded in and told him to shut up. Buffy had tell him it was all of them. He didn’t know he guessed - it wasn’t exactly hard to read between the lines that they’d been a major disagreement that had probably involved most people. I don’t blame Faith for the record, I don’t blame anyone. I think like many things it was down to differences of opinion. I’m angry at both Anya and Rona the moaner who behaved like bitches but beyond that just one of those things. Just thought I’d point that out before you accuse me who push the blame away from Spike onto other people. . "But no one has ever told him. He knew it because he knew the Scoobies and he knew Buffy. Just like he knew everything about them in Yoko Factor" No, he guessed a few things in the "Yoko Factor" too - you say him see Willow touch Tara on the neck and then make the comment about them saying Willow and magic as a veiled reference to Tara. Beside no one is the same as they were in the "Yoko Factor" they’ve all changed. Unlike the "Yoko Factor" no one is shit stiring here - it’s just a situation with a lot of folks dealing with a lot of pressure badly. "But he still had an amazingly lack of concern for Buffy’s situation for months" No one apart from Buffy respects Spike. Giles says "I’ll never want your opinion" in "Once More with Feeling" and although a throw away line he means it. If he’d said something no one would have listened. The real problem of Buffy’s situation in s.7 is she’s carrrying too much responsibility and sadly no one can really help her with that. . "He stands by and let the drama evolve itself, just like he stood by in S6 and let himself become her attempted rapist" He didn’t set out to do that, he actually was trying to apologise at the time but just didn’t understand why she wasn’t coming back, it was the "Gone with the Wind" delusion and a whole ton of desperation. Like the guy who shot his recent ex in "I Only Have Eyes for You" it was something "stupid done in a moment of blind passion". How can you understand someone leaving for moral reasons if you don’t see it? "Kennedy is a bitch because she was portrayed that way" Yet you say she’s protective of Willow and fights for her - not the quality of a bitch in my opinion. A bitch to me is someone who doesn’t give a toss about anyone but themselves. Maybe we’ve got different definations here. Kennedy can be over-assertive and bolshy but wouldn’t say bitchy. "She doesn’t get fleshed out, she doesn’t remains a character who’s obnoxious and without personality" Again, opinion which I don’t agree with, her care for Willow, her assertiveness and the fact she speaks against Buffy are character traits. She is sometimes obnoxious but that’s a lot of people and it’s the flip side of being assertive. "But she was good for Willow regardless of that" At least we agree on something but then why say that Willow’s character was poorly served by being in relationship with someone who was like that. "Being a bitch or an asshole doesn’t equal dislike" They’re not exactly complimentary terms, again maybe your definations are different to mine but I wouldn’t want those labels, they seem to imply contempt. . "There is lot more necessary for that. Kennedy was forced on Willow, badly worked out, and basically used to remove her from Buffy so that Spike can have solo screentime with her" Again, don’t agree. I think it was to give Willow something good in her life to show that she could at least begin to live despite Tara dying on her and as someone else said to try to get us to give a damn about at least one of the potentials. "Buffy had free will? No, she did not. She was suffering a huge depression. She couldn’t deal with it" Unless you are screwed up enough to be institutionalised then you have free will. People deal with depression in lots of different ways. Saying I thought Buffy behaved badly does not mean that I am without sympathy for her or that I think she’s a heartless cow. It is a fact that sometimes when you are going through hell you take others along for the ride, I’ve seen people do it in real life. She, like Spike did, acknoweldged this and tried to rectify it the best way she could in season seven. "Spike doesn’t have a soul but that says nothing about free will. He has all the free will in the world. And he choose to use her" True, but it does say something about his perspective on life. He couldn’t understand how tormented by guilt she was because he didn’t feel it himself, something which is said in "Never Leave Me". He’s saying look I understand now what was tearing you apart. "This whole lack of a soul argument is nothing but positive discrimination. If you want that Spike should have been treated equally, you should look to his actions and not to what or who he is" You have to compare like with like here - you are comparing his actions to those who had the moral equipment to know better so to speak. It’s also down to experience to he hadn’t been in a serious relationship with a person who wasn’t an immoral, insane, sado-masocist before and ergo did not know how to behave towards such a person. "Buffy never called Xander discusting. She went way further. She said nothing to Xander. She always swallowed her rather angry feelings for him and did as if she was his friend, his sister" Because she cared about him too much to vent these directly and wanted to spare him pain probably. . "This became more than apparent in S6 where she doesn’t come to him as friend for her problems, for comfort, but to the man she hates, the man he hates" Two factors at play here. One Buffy states in "CDWP" - "I didn’t want to be loved" and I think this is true she was too screwed up to handle a real relationship of any sort. You have to have some stable sense of self before you have a real bond with someone else. The second is that she feared Xander’s condemnation. She knew that he would have been shocked by her attraction to Spike and she was right - when he found out the first thing he did was tear into her verbally (which in fairness to him he did apologise for afterwards). How can you turn to someone who you know will condemn you?. You are right, Xander is heroic (no one but an idiot would deny it) but he has his flaws and he does just see red when it comes to men in Buffy’s life that he considers to be unsuitable. "She asked for his friendship, for his support and denying this from him is much more hurtfull" She never denied Xander friendship. She was distanced from her friend because she was distanced from life. Everyone around her suffered because of that. That would have happened with or without Spike it was a sympton of the depression. Someone on another board basically left her boyfriend because he was just picking at the relationship all the time and although she loved him she couldn’t stand it anymore. People with depression are not easy to live with. Besides I fail to see how cutting yourself from someone is more hurtful than using their body and then telling them they suck afterwards. . "Xander had to fight to be supportive for her, Spike got it for free, he got because she hated him" And you say that she’s wasn’t abusing him. . "Xander had to fight to be respected as a fellow warrior, something it is doubtful he ever really got" Yes he did, Buffy told him in "End of Days". "You are my strength, I never would have got this far without you" in "Checkpoint" she replies to a watcher who says Xander doesn’t have any special abilities by mentioning that he’s clocked "more field time than all of them put together. He’s part of the unit". . "Xander simply had to fight to even be seen by her" No I think saving her life in Prophercy Girl did that. In season seven she had to focus on the warriors it was a big dangerous fight and she needed to train those who were going to have to physically fight it. The Potentials got most of her attention. She spent a lot of time talking to Wood because she worked with him and she needed someone to talk to about stategy. " And this was made very painfully clear in First Date and in Empty Spaces where when she in anger tells Giles that the only person she can trust her back with is Spike" That’s because she’s angry at Giles and the comment is obviously directed at Giles without reference to anyone or anything else. Look I know Xander’s a hero and that he suffered a lot too. Again, a lot of this is said in the spirit of the general rights of characters. I know you’ve got the right to your opinion but it annoys me it’s so willfully and vindictively negative - every action is interpreted in the worst possible light and not one shread of credit is ever given even for trying. I can’t believe that everything you hate or dislike in the verse wouldn’t have happened if just one character was removed it doesn’t strike me as being very reasonable. The verse is over for the moment, you do not have to watch a Spike movie by all means enjoy the Willow and Ilyria ones if they are separate. Why bother voicing your all consuming hatred in a thread which started about news of something others will appreciate. You don’t like it - fine, vote with "off" switch it’s your right is a consumer as it is mine to watch it. Friday 21 October 2005, by Kat : It’s decent of you but you should say "what I think he did to the show" or "what I believe he did to the show". Look I’m sorry if I was rude but I just think you should know that your opinion is just that. I think that you are scapegoating a character for every issue you had with the later seasons of BtvS and the final seasons of Angel. This isn’t getting us anywhere you have your opinion I mine. You aren’t going to change your mind and I’m not going to change mind. As the song goes "lets call the whole thing off" Friday 21 October 2005, by Kat : Ok I do not romantize the s.6 relationship. I merely state the abuse went both ways. Yes, of course he was in the wrong but he realised that and tried to change. Again, you are determined to hate him, to blame him for everything so I can’t change. At least my "romantising" has its limits your villification and scapegoating does not.Saturday 22 October 2005, by DarkDiva20 : the episode with the sacrifice of three and the word of Valios.Tuesday 25 October 2005, by Kat : Ok I know this is pointless but I’m afraid I have to come back on you to a couple of points. Xander - yes what he condemed her for what was wrong, Buffy knew it was wrong but someone telling you it’s wrong when you already see that doesn’t help. Trust me on this one. I think Buffy is the sort of person who doesn’t like anyone she cares about to have a negative opinion of her. Xander himself saw he’d gone too far in condemming her which is why he apologised. Why didn’t she approach Xander before it all got out of control? - well she wasn’t going to tell anyone about the being in heaven bit because she didn’t want them to feel guilty, she told Spike partially because he was outside the group, partially because he wasn’t involved her resurection and partially because he asked when on his own. When it leaked out that she been torn out of heaven, Buffy had already kissed Spike moments afterwards - she couldn’t have told Xander as he would have gone balistic even over that. Look Xander’s a hero but he has his faults and whether it’s vamp hatred over what happened to Jessie, what he’s sees and has been told by Giles, just plain jealousy, white knight mentality or morality he sees red when it comes to Buffy and vamps. Buffy did try to tell Willow but Willow was in the grip of her own magical addiction and pain over losing Tara. Xander was also wrapped up in his own doubts about whether he should or should not marry Anya. That’s the point of season six - everyone was a bad guy to a greater or lesser extent, bar poor Tara, because they couldn’t see past their own needs and their own pain. Spike was under the delusion he could shag Buffy into loving him - yes it was wrong, yes it was selfish but he learned from it. Everyone learned from their bad experiences and learned to connect to others, to think beyond themselves and forfill the needs of others not themselves, that’s when things started to get better. Buffy reached out to Dawn pulling herself out depression, Xander reached out to Willow saving her and the world. That’s why I like season seven which is about how that "the quality of mercy" saves everyone through the actions of Willow, Spike and Angel - three individuals who badly needed forgiveness. Willow’s actions in saving the day were dismissed as just magic by you but we saw her doubts beforehand, the reassurance of her lover to overcome them and how was she was released the doubt and guilt which plagued her by her big spell, how instead of pulling her down it lifted her up as it was for the benefit of others. When it comes to the "having no soul is no excuse" arguement why does this only seems to hold for Spike? You don’t condemn Angel for the acts of Angelius when in all fairness under that opinion you have to. In fact you seem to think quite a lot of Angel who had a soul forced upon him, at least Spike did gain a soul through his own free will, however "selfish" the reasons are. I hate the way that Angel fans apply one set of rules for Angel and another set for Spike, aside from my own character loyalities it doesn’t strike me as being fair. More specifically - lets see how Spike’s amazing powers of propersy and telepathy come from no more than logic and experience and just paying attention to what’s been said and written on the wall. "SPIKE No. (excited) This’ll change your tune. I came here ’cause I got something to tell you. You were right. Caleb is trying to protect something from you" The disaster that was the first attack on the vineyard came because Caleb said "I have something of yours". Everyone apart from Buffy was sceptical about the truth of what he was saying. Pretty much everyone said it’s either not true or the thing he has isn’t important. Giles said "it could be pencil sharper" or words to that effect. I think this included Spike who at the very least argeed with someone else who said that it could well be an attempt to lure Buffy somewhere whilst an attack was launched on the potentials not with her, he refered to it "the old bait and switch". Now remember that sign on the mission which you felt was never mentioned therefore totally unimportant, it said "it is not for you it is only for her to wield" and the guy at the mission said Caleb flew into a blind rage when saw it. See how the two correlate here - Caleb says "I have something of yours", Spike sees that Caleb has taken something which says "it is only for her to wield". Ergo Spike now knows that Caleb took something that Buffy was meant to have and was pissed off when told it wasn’t for him ergo she was right to assume that he did have something of hers and it was important. "And I think you were spot on all the way. I think it’s at the vineyard. So? You were right. (she still hasn’t moved or reacted) Buffy?" Buffy rightly deduces that Caleb has something important at the vineyard because "the bad guys go where the power is, right". Spike I think independently forms the same conclusion, after all, both of them know the game. Buffy’s fought evil for seven years, Spike WAS evil for over a century. He was also the king of "what does this interesting gadget do and where do I find it?" school - he always seems to know about where to get stuff that will do stuff - from crosses to restore vampire’s health, to immunity devices for vampires, to wish granting demons in Africa. He probably knows that a bad guy with a funky gadget will ineviatably keep it close and protect it or have it protected until he can figure out how to use it. He’s probably rightly assuming that Caleb is doing what he would have done himself in the past under the circumstances. Although Spike doesn’t know that it was Buffy’s decision to attack the vineyard for the second time which led to her being kicked out, he knows that the decision to attack the vineyard the first time around wasn’t popular or at least universaly approved of (possibly he even doubted it himself) and he knows what the result of it was in terms of loss of life and Xander’s fate. It is not an unreasonable assumption that the backlash about the decision to attack the vineyard the first time around led to her being rounded on because people blamed her for that and thought she was wrong. He may not even have guessed about the proposed second attack for his remarks to make sense in that context. I’m going to show that you can see past a dislike of a character to see what’s good about them. It was Riley who gave Buffy the strength to break out of the vicious circle she’d fallen into in season six and unlike Xander he didn’t condemn her (mainly because with his own dalience with the dark side being bitten by the vamps maybe he understood) but told her she was still the same person despite all the stuff going on around her and ultimately that she was better than the circumstances in which she found herself. He gave her some self belief and seemed to understand implictly that she was in a bad place because her life had crashed. There you go - a boring character I don’t like does some real good - you can dislike a character without believing everything they do is wrong, you just got to be reasonable and try to see the world through their eyes. I don’t take issue with your dislike of Spike, with the fact that in your opinion he got too much screen time but I hate the way he’s to blame for everything and never did or tried to one right thing and the way you are determined to see everything he does in the worse possible light. It’s a completely unreasonable opinion to have about a character, any character, and although I’ll never change it, I can’t let it stand unchallenged. You are not going to change my mind anymore than I’m going to change yours so lets just drop this. Tuesday 25 October 2005, by Kat : You know something I’ve just had an ephihany here. Hatred isn’t good - I seen in real life people trash their lives over hate of others. Yes I know this isn’t a real person but a writer once said "those who burn books then start burning people". I hope that you are never as unreasonable like this to a real person then it won’t just be them who suffers. Just a thought - you may want to hang onto. You know I’ve never understood the hatred people have for fictional characters just like I don’t get it in real life - why do something so negative. You don’t like what happened to the last seasons of the verse - fine get over it, don’t watch the Spike film when it comes out, why waste your time being angry about it and bitching about it. Why waste your life like that - I’m not sure how much longer I’m going to keep up this dance of death for that very reason. Go find something else you enjoy :-).These comments are an anwser to this article : "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" : Spike Movie, anyone ? |
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