Jane Espenson

Ken Jennings isn’t the only one with a Jeopardy! book out — Bob Harris came back from multiple flunkings of the audition test to kick ass on the show, then wrote a kick-ass book about his experiences. Prisoner of Trebekistan: A Decade in Jeopardy is full of behind-the-scenes dish about the show (although it’s not that dishy, really — Alex Trebek seems like a fine human being), but it’s also about family, love, strange coincidences, and learning to learn. It’s funny as hell (mnemonic devices involving the human ass!), and at one point I actually misted up. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, it’s...okay, I’ve never seen Cats, but I bet Trebekistan is better. Cats can’t help you memorize a list of obscure nineteenth-century vice presidents.

...OR CAN IT?

Okay, seriously: no, it can’t. Anyway, Bob and his wingman, Jane Espenson — who’s written for everything from Buffy to Gilmore Girls to Pink Lady and Jeff — took a few minutes to chat with me last week. Then I suffered a technical glitch of fairly major proportions, so they took another few minutes to chat with me again about Bob’s book, Jane’s blog, and dick jokes.

(Note: Jane didn’t really write for Pink Lady and Jeff. ...OR DID SHE? ...Okay, seriously: no, she didn’t. Don’t email me.)

jane4383: Hi Sars! You here?

Sars: I am indeed. With my fingers clamped on Ctrl-S.

bobitude: So will you be cutting and pasting, or does this thing have like a huge buffer or something?

Sars: Cutting and pasting like it’s 1999.

jane4383: Ha!

bobitude: That would mean you’re using a Commodore Pet, then.

Sars: ...Amiga, baby. (The Wang joke seemed too easy.)

bobitude: Sweet...the Apple IIe was too expensive?

jane4383: We can give dense and pithy answers that encapsulate our wit in a few well-chosen words.

bobitude: Speak for yourself.

jane4383: Concentrated pitch.

Sars: Two out of three ain’t bad.

jane4383: Pith.

Sars: Technically this is Revenge of the Pith.

bobitude: Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the chat room... Hey! This is in 3D!

Sars: Okay, first question: when you had to respond to an "answer" with, "What is Uranus?," did you stifle a giggle?

jane4383: We both just laughed out loud again.

Sars: Butt mnemonics feature heavily enough in the book, so I have to ask.

bobitude: (Laughing) I didn’t stifle, exactly, but I was careful with my pronunciation. I had been kidding around a lot with Alex, and I had a sense when I said "YUR-uh-nus" he was a little relieved.

Sars: But then you have the "urine" rhyme. So it’s no better, to my mind.

bobitude: As to butt mnemonics, I’d like to emphasize that any amusing body part will do. The more intrusive the better.

jane4383: I think you can actually see it on the tape...a little glance as Bob buzzes in, a sort of "please, don’t" look from Alex. ...Hmm...I’m told I might have dreamt that.

bobitude: Um...Alex’s face isn’t visible on that part of the tape

jane4383: I guess I wrote and filmed a little scene in my brain.

Sars: I’m sure it’s based on real events.

bobitude: As to urine — "YUR-uh" was part of the choice — not "YUR-i."

jane4383: Subtle.

Sars: Too subtle.

bobitude: Jane is always writing and filming little scenes in her brain. I suspect many of these are quite Bollywood.

jane4383: Subtle with extra "ub." Get it? Because you don’t hear the "ub" in "subtle"? Hee! NO?

bobitude: Too subtle.

Sars: My response was subtle as well.

jane4383: I crack myself up.

Sars: Did anyone ever succeed in cracking Alex up during the non-get-to-know-you portions? I don’t sense that the show is heavily edited for that kind of thing, like giggling and flubs and whatnot.

bobitude: Sure. I’ve done it several times. "I don’t need your pity" during the $100,000 Tournament of Champions comes to mind. It happens all the time during celebrity games.

Sars: But he incorporated it and didn’t need retakes, I assume.

bobitude: Alex actually has a real ball with it when the players are relaxed. And no edits — he laughs, reaction shot, onward. ...Jane, by the way. has the Beach Ball of Doom locking up her computer, so she’ll rejoin us in a minute

Sars: All righty.

bobitude: I’m gonna sound like I’m from Jesus Camp — are we saved?

Sars: Yep, so far.

jane4383 has left. jane5333 has joined.

bobitude: Jane! You’re 950 better!

jane5333: I’m back! Whew! The little typy sceen disappeared!

Sars: Stupid Java.

jane5333: "type-y screen"

bobitude: Subtle. There must have been 950 more Janes in the last 20 minutes.

Sars: [insert 950 Dicks joke here]

bobitude: [950 laughs]

jane5333: Hee hee! *gasping*

Sars: So: Alex. He’s tall, you say in the book, which I didn’t expect.

bobitude: I think you just came up with a great band name.

jane5333: Many TV stars are not. Alex is the exception.

Sars: He doesn’t seem tall.

Sars: In his Botany 500 suits.

bobitude: Yep. Probably 6’2", 6’3". And very alpha-male in his vibe. If a hundred random people and Alex were lost in the wild, people would let him decide where to look for food.

Sars: Does he need to grow the mustache back? I miss the ’stache.

jane5333: I got to meet Alex once, at the wedding that’s featured in the book...very tall, very gracious. Seemed like a totally cool guy.

bobitude: Actually, his mustache is preserved in a vacuum-sealed case outside the studio. You are expected to leave offerings of flowers or incense or a perhaps photo of a loved one.

jane5333: I think the original ’stache is in the Smithsonia— oh, you got there first.

bobitude: The reason he doesn’t seem tall so much during a game is that the shorter contestants are often on boxes to raise them to the height of the tallest contestant. Against Frank Spangenberg, I was on like three boxes, teetering in the Radio City breeze. The podium felt like it was at my knees.

Sars: [950 Dicks joke] ...You give a lot of insight into the behind-the-scenes stuff in the book; is that the book you set out to write originally?

jane5333: Good question...Bob will now type!

Sars: Because of course the finished product is about much more.

jane5333: *laughing at Dicks joke again*

Sars: It’s a crowd-pleaser.

bobitude: Sorta. Trebekistan was originally supposed be just a humor book about Jeopardy — nothing else. Nothing all that personal, just more a Jeopardy For Dummies thing. About two weeks into it, I had an odd feeling in my stomach that something wasn’t right, and I stopped for a while. Pretty soon I realized that the original proposal left out almost everything that actually matters to you as a player, how it really feels — your ego being put on the line, with huge, possibly life-changing money at stake, and everyone you know watching. And the friendships that develop between tournament players.

Sars: And the Autoimmune Diseases category, which you can’t understand the significance of without the back story about your sister.

bobitude: And how studying for the show completely changed my self-perception of what I knew. I used to think I knew squat. Now I know that I don’t, and I’m much happier.

jane5333: Yes...Bob’s sister and I both did what we could to supply him with some personal angst.

bobitude: The book starts with the questions a young man might have — "What’s it like to stand in the flashing lights and win money?" — and ends with much better questions —

Sars: But it works. Which is a strange sensation as a reader.

bobitude: — how is it possible that there’s so much cool stuff in the world, and I never saw it?

Sars: To be laughing at other contestants who are compared to Godzilla-movie villains, and then when the surgeon emerges...tears!

bobitude: Thanks! And thanks to you, Jane, for providing me with most of the dramatic arc. Talk about taking one for the team.

Sars: I assume Jane’s health is quite dull these days.

jane5333: Bob gets so many tear-soaked emails about the book — everyone cries! And yet it’s still clearly a humor book!

bobitude: There is no "I" in "breast cancer."

jane5333: YES! I’m very very well!

Sars: Good. My margin notes in that section are along the lines of "I’m CRYING now?"

bobitude: Jane is so healthy it’s almost sickening. Bounces out of bed every morning, bright-eyed, dancing. And that’s really cool to hear. Thanks.

jane5333: Anyone who is worried about me and the ripple effects my health has on genre television can relax!

bobitude: I get the same fan mail every day now: "Thanks for making me cry." And then they make jokes like I’m an old friend. It’s great.

Sars: You’ve mentioned that that’s the most frequent response to the book.

jane5333: Yeah. It’s "I laughed, I cried."

bobitude: "I laughed, I cried, I kissed $23.95 goodbye."

Sars: Any weird/inexplicable emails you’ve gotten?

bobitude: Not really.

Sars: I read on your blog that you’re "struck" by the number of errors in the reviews so far.

bobitude: I guess the one thing that surprised me is how many people connect to the chronic health problems of my sister.

Sars: Those parts are very relatable. Your feelings of powerlessness, plus the black humor; a lot of families would feel the same, I think.

bobitude: I’ll get to that in a sec — the one thing that I cherish most is email from family members or patients with long-term problems, who have written to say they now feel closer to their loved ones, just by reading my experience with my sister. I never even intended that. Never crossed my mind. But there isn’t a lot written I guess about chronic illness.

Sars: You talk some about feeling guilty for wasting opportunities she didn’t have; was that a conversation you used the book to have with her?

bobitude: Yes. Thanks for picking up on that. Actually, I used the book to tell a lot of people things I wanted to say but never could exactly.

Sars: Well, good writing gets a lot of work done.

bobitude: Cross a year off my things-to-do list.

jane5333: I don’t know if you still wanted to talk about the reviews...the book has gotten wonderfully positive reviews — Wall St. Journal had happy kittens of praise, Entertainment Weekly loved it...New York Times book review said totally nice things...

bobitude: My brother-in-law may not have known how much I respected him. Certain ex-girlfriends may not know how much still wish them well. Et cetera. ...I wouldn’t say "totally" about the Times. They complained that the book doesn’t have enough "dish."

Sars: I thought it had plenty of dish.

bobitude: Which says vastly more about the reviewer than it does the book.

Sars: What did they say about Ken Jennings’s by comparison?

bobitude: The idea that something is only good if it’s dissing other people is deeply offensive.

Sars: Well, it’s easier to write, I can tell you from experience. Hee.

jane5333: I agree. I think there’s lots of great "what really happens backstage" stuff in Bob’s book — subtle mind games...former contestants always comment on how Bob has really captured the feeling of being on the show...

bobitude: Ken’s book is a completely different book — more a cultural history and defense of trivia — and the only thing the books have in common is that they were written by Jeopardy people. But that didn’t stop almost every paper and magazine from reviewing the two so much in tandem you could barely tell which book was being discussed.

Sars: Is it your sense that you’re helping each other’s sales? Or is Ken the albatross around your neck?

bobitude: No idea on that.

Sars: You two should have an Amazon rankings rumble.

bobitude: The only way to know would be to have access to the non-Ken-book parallel universe as a control.

Sars: What’s next for you, project-wise? Pimp your ride, Bob! "Well, my new band 950 Dicks is playing the Fillmore..."

bobitude: For now, let’s just say I’m doing a humorous reference book about petty hatreds.

Sars: Oh, you too, eh?

jane5333: Hee!

bobitude: All the cool kids are doing it these days.

jane5333: And don’tcha think there should be a Trebekistan movie?

Sars: I do! Laughter, tears..."Jack!" "Rose!"

jane5333: Hee! Yes! Winslet me!

Sars: Who plays Bob in the movie? ...Oh, wait: Delroy Lindo. [We had decided that Lindo should play Bob in the previous chat; why we settled on this casting choice is lost to us now, but I believe it was my idea...and I stand by it.]

jane5333: I find Bob very Greg Kinnear-like.

Sars: Ooh, good one.

bobitude: Why didn’t Rose just share the dang door? They could have been on it in shifts — ten minutes each.

Sars: I never got that either.

jane5333: Maybe the hypothermia would’ve killed them both.

bobitude: Better movie!

jane5333: My thought was that he didn’t try hard enough to get up there with her...it was pretty half-hearted. Like, urph, slip, I’ll just be down here...

Sars: Attention whore.

jane5333: But back to our movie...

bobitude: I actually got the Greg Kinnear comparison two days ago, in a bookstore.

Sars: Alex as himself?

bobitude: I see Kevin Kline as Alex. Right physicality, right age. Or Samuel L. Jackson.

Sars: And who plays Jane? "Uma...Oprah..."

jane5333: I want Reese Witherspoon, but I anticipate Laurie Metcalf. I think we all want Reese Witherspoon.

Sars: Except Ryan Philippe. OH!

bobitude: Reese Witherspoon or Kirsten Dunst would get the vibe.

jane5333: Ooh!

bobitude: Nice.

Sars: It was cheap, but I had to. Speaking of cheap, can we talk about other game shows for a sec?

jane5333: Oh, yeah! Bob’s big win on Greed!

bobitude: Absolutely. And "cheap" is the word usually.

Sars: Yes. Talk to me about The Woolery.

bobitude: The CW?

Sars: The C-Dub.

jane5333: "The Woolery" — isn’t that the yarn store down on Pico?

bobitude: Right next to Richard the Thread.

Sars: Boo.

jane5333: *laughing out loud, choking, falling over...* I love a pun.

bobitude: C-Dub seems to be exactly what he seems to be — affable, approachable.

Sars: "Mother of Purl, now under new management!"

bobitude: Nice. On La Cienega there’s a sports place called The Merchant of Tennis.

jane5333: Mrphll! *smothering laughter, wiping tears*

Sars: L.A. has the best store-name puns of anywhere, it’s weird.

bobitude: On Greed, though, the producers kept changing the rules, which were too complicated to begin with. So it was the only show I’ve ever been around where even the host didn’t know what was going on.

Sars: Any shows you wish you’d gone on but didn’t? You should take your shot at Price Is Right before Barker retires.

bobitude: Well, I would have loved a shot at the Millionaire hot seat. But I never got on. Although I did get to be a phone-a-friend. ...Maybe reach into [Barker’s] Magic Pocket? Ewwww. No thanks.

Sars: [950 Dicks!]

jane5333: Does Jeopardy after the money doubled and the five-time ceiling went away count? I think Bob would’ve killed!

bobitude: Helped my buddy Howard win $250,000 once. That was cool.

Sars: Yeah, I thought the elimination of the ceiling was bullshit, but without that, no Ken.

bobitude: Seriously, I do wonder how long I might have gone and how much I would have won with the rules as they are now. But I am NOT BITTER. And nobody has repeated Ken’s feat, either. So give it up for the guy. As much about endurance and concentration as anything else. Five games a day, over and over and over...

Sars: Random clothing changes...

bobitude: I only had three suit jackets in the world, and one of them didn’t even fit. I think two of them came from the Salvation Army.

Sars: Well, nobody looks all that soigné on the show, really. Except Trebek. And the Video Daily Double Trebektones.

jane5333: I love the Jeopardy contestants...so much realer a cross-section of America than, say, the cast of Big Brother.

Sars: And it’s about knowing a lot of stuff. That isn’t really valued as much in the culture as it should be.

bobitude: Gotta get my ass down to Botany 500. Although I think now he wears Armani or something.

Sars: "...No deal!"

bobitude: I’m not sure Jeopardy contestants are a cross-section of anything but Jeopardy contestants.

jane5333: Gene Rayburn. Now there was a host who could wear a vest...

Sars: That dude was scary.

bobitude: You cannot tell me that a vote in any Jeopardy green room, anywhere, would have elected some of our governments. ...[Rayburn] was pretty weird-looking, wasn’t he?

jane5333: Ooh...intriguing political thought.

Sars: Eighty percent legs, 18 percent teeth.

bobitude: Two percent chin.

Sars: I was thinking two percent bourbon, but we’ll accept "chin."

jane5333: And two percent — oh. I was going to say "smarm."

bobitude: Thank you, judges. ...And no Magic Pocket. So he gets points for that.

jane5333: Oh my god. We actually just played Match Game.

Sars: I want that revived, man. Some of the old episodes with Buck Owen, it’s just chaos. You would never see that now.

jane5333: I would love to go on Millionaire with Bob as a couple.

bobitude: Can we take a five-minute break? I need to go visit the green room.

jane5333: I’ll stay and chat with you, Sars!

Sars: All righty.

jane5333: Or if you want to use the break to cut ’n’ paste...

Sars: Nope, I’m C-and-P-ing all the while.

jane5333: I think that’s what Bob’s doing.

Sars: [950 Dicks]

jane5333: Hee!

Sars: I’m like a two-year-old, I’ll just keep saying it until you stop responding. ...So, talk to me a little bit about your blog, if you don’t mind.

jane5333: Sure! ...Oh! I have to post today! Better not forget.

Sars: When did you start that? What’s the impetus there?

jane5333: I think it was almost a year ago now. It’s been really fun and totally absorbing.

Sars: It’s a window into the physical building of a script that we don’t usually get to look through.

jane5333: Well, ultimately, I’d love to write a book about writing great spec scripts. So I thought I’d see if I had enough tidbits of writing advice. I originally thought it would be much more of a peek into the process of the writing room...but it turned out to be much more about the step before that...the sitting-at-home stuff.

Sars: I think that’s the hard bit.

jane5333: They’re both hard, because it’s hard to turn on the pure creative, fearless part of your brain in a room. In a writers’ room.

Sars: But it’s hard to gauge what you’re doing when it’s just you.

jane5333: So many smart and funny people — it can really make you lock up.

Sars: Sure.

jane5333: I think my problem with the writing-at-home thing is that there’s no one staring at you waiting for you to finish. Like any home-based business, you have to be one of those awful "I’m my own cheerleader" types.

Sars: Or just have a punishing superego.

jane5333: So I’ve been talking, on the blog, a lot recently about finding the fun in it...yeah, but sometimes the superego can make you give up. It’s a tricky balance...you have to be supportive and critical of yourself, or have good friends to do that part.

Sars: Do you get a lot of emails from people asking you for more specific advice?

jane5333: I don’t give the readers any way to reach me through emails, so I get real letters!

Sars: Ooh!

jane5333: And yeah, I get lots of great questions! ...Hey! Bob’s back!

bobitude: Thanks. What did I miss?

jane5333: Blog talk.

Sars: Process talk.

bobitude: I mostly use my fingers.

jane5333: Bob’s process involves lots of support from the people at Starbucks.

Sars: Hey, mine too.

jane5333: Check out the eggnog lattes at Coffee Bean...there’s a well-written scene inside each one.

bobitude: I am still carrying about ten pounds of Frappuccino consumed during the Trebekistan writing process.

Sars: I feel you. Our book dropped my stomach pH to like -45.

jane5333: Amy Sherman-Palladino once described her writing process as "write a scene, get a cookie." Most brilliant thing ever.

Sars: Are you watching GG this season?

bobitude: Brilliant if you want to look like Jabba the Hutt. Not that ASP does.

jane5333: Yeah! My buddy Rebecca Kirshner is co-running it!

bobitude: But I would. ...Not Rebecca, I mean. Look like Jabba the Hutt.

jane5333: Oh dear.

Sars: It’s getting some...nonplussed reviews, I think.

jane5333: I’ve gotta take off soon...I have a pitch to go...um...pitch.

Sars: I think I’m covered, pretty much, unless you can think of anything from last time that I didn’t get to this time. Besides the stripper heels. [...Don’t ask. My stage name is "Krystle."]

jane5333: Thinking...thinking...

bobitude: Man, that was an exchange I hated losing.

jane5333: If you’re considering going on the show or taking the Jeopardy test, this is a book you should read! I talk to so many people who really are using Bob’s memory techniques and it’s working for them!

Sars: Any closing advice to folks trying to get on the show?

bobitude: I’d say more important than memorizing a million facts is learning to play the game well. Learn how to damn bet. Learn the buzzer timing. Learn how to work the categories.

jane5333: I took the test and passed it and they never called. I think I looked faint-prone. So don’t do that. Look conscious.

Sars: Good advice generally, I’d say.

jane5333: Read Trebekistan!

Sars: Also good advice generally.

bobitude: That stuff, incidentally, is all in Trebekistan — along with the memory stuff, too. Not to make a big sales pitch at the end.

Sars: Hey, I’m here for you.

jane5333: Thanks, Sars! You’re the best!

Sars: All right, let’s let Jane get to work.

bobitude: But it makes a great holiday gift! Sixteen million people watch on any given night. One of them probably lives in your house. Behind the stairs.

Sars: Any big doings, we’ll do a Part II.

jane5333: Oh, thank you! We really appreciate it!

bobitude: Great. Next time in you’re L.A., beverages on us.

Sars: Rock and roll. Call if you’re in NYC.

jane5333: Yes! Beverages! Okay then...I’m gonna jump off. Bye-bye! Kisses! Kittens!

bobitude: We can go to Trader Vic’s and laugh at the goofy tiki drinks.

Sars: [950 Dicks!]

bobitude: On that note.

Sars: Indeed. Thanks, guys.

jane5333: Dicks to you! Bye!